Why are we fighting?

Ok, 5 Whys:

1. Why is there a war involving a major amount of the largest alliances in this game?
Because several alliances declared against several others.

2. Why did those several alliances declare war?
They are trying to stop a single alliance, namely the Night Crusaders.

3. Why did they start wars with several alliances instead of just NC?
Because they believe NC is controlled by these several alliances.

4. Why do they believe NC is controlled by these several alliances?
Because they were allies during a previous period of war.

5. Why do they believe these allies can control NC?
Because that is how they would do things if it were them.

So, root cause of this war is that the vCrow side of this believe H? should have reined in NC and since they didn't they feel H? and all of their allies must be attacked.

Solution? Yeah, I don't know how to convince vCrow and all their allies that if they had a problem with NC they should have dealt with NC. I guess they believe H? would have just attacked them so they did it first. Seems pretty flimsy for a war that will cause so much damage but such is life in Illy...

Actually Vanerin,

Hmm, perhaps I don't understand 5 Whys very well (extremely probable), but I thought they were used to help reduce assumptions. I only see one (possibly two) of Abstract's points that are firmly grounded in evidence.

Grego wrote: If you didn't notice, it is Deranzin's job to stretch, chew and blow facts like bubblegum, till everyone forget what is the subject :)

And every time you do not like the facts your only contribution to a topic each time is to come out of the blue and say all those nice things about me and NOTHING ELSE. No facts and arguments from Grego ... just slander ... great way for a discussion dude

Someone's got a problem here and it sure ain't me !

Meagh wrote: Deranzin wrote: So, MY "so called 'revenge' war" .?. Yeah right ... Get your facts straight dude and then try to pretend to represent "most people"  Epi's point is still valid.  Revenge might be Hathaldir's motivation, but let's not pretend it's the motivation for everyone ('SOON, Shade, others and half the Crowfed' included). - M.

No, it is not, because it does not provide any counterpoint or data or facts.

Some of them want revenge (which is a fact epidemic ignored). Others, like Tamaeon, made it clear that they just want power and care for nothing else (another fact epidemic ignored). Others, I cannot fathom what they might want, but seems to me that those two first groups would make a very natural team, as objectives go, and when people join that group they either agree with that agenda or it coincides with their own, wouldn't you agree .?.

So, when you have a group of people consisting of people that want revenge and people that want power and other people that join them for not known (at least in public) reasons, then you can bet your money that those people's agenda is at least served by the first two groups objectives.

Ergo you can either call this war a matter of revenge or a matter of power-hunger or both, with all three cases being correct and based on actual data.

Edit :

Epidemic wrote: I've heard many, many people state that TVM was considered a feeder alliance for NC.

So, what you hear from many people, is automatically true .?. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZZJXw4MTA







Edited by Deranzin - 04 Nov 2013 at 09:37

Redfist wrote: I am afraid that Deranzin's post do seem to move way off topic.  At first I thought that it was just his way of expressing himself but then I noticed that it happens all to frequently and usually in threads that hold views that he doesn't agree with. Additionally he always tends to personalise and enflame issues and the above post is an example of that. I could give a number of factual examples of this but that would derail this thread. Getting back on subject as to why are we (you)are  all fighting.  You are fighting because players like Bonfyr Verboo of TVM, Sir Brad of NC and KP of H? want you to fight. Their idea of fun is what you are experiencing in Illy now. They want Illy to be a war game in which they have more or less a good advantage built over a period time to attack, belittle, siege and humiliate other players. They do not value the crafting, marketing and roleplaying aspects of the game as much as they do "Hard Core"  warmongering.  Why is that? Well , for me , Deranzin summed it up the other day in GC when he stated : " It's fun. I get a big kick out of it"