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When Gaming Gets Personal
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Rill View Drop Down
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Joined: 17 Jun 2011
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Points: 6903 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2016 at 04:54
Originally posted by IbnSenna IbnSenna wrote:

Illy's world definitely wanting birdies, winged horsies, flying dragons (able to use their speed!) and other rokh birds!

Pigs?
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ajqtrz View Drop Down
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Points: 500 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ajqtrz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2016 at 21:43
Pigs?  How about flying pigs to tangle with the flying dragons....or to escort them...lol.

AJ
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Points: 1853 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KillerPoodle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2016 at 21:59
Flying sharks with Laser beams - Stormcrow promised them 5 years ago - still waiting for delivery...
"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM

"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill
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Points: 109 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2016 at 12:20
i'm out of business here in forums. Not that i don't have sell something or lack of buyers ..
 Can't it be allowed to be a philosophical player.

i'm out, good luck Aj


Edited by asr - 26 Jan 2016 at 12:24
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Originally posted by Anjire Anjire wrote:

In reading through your linked research, I could not find what their definition of what they consider a "violent video game."  Can you point this definition out or at  the least define it in your own words so that there is a basis of discussion to work upon.  Further, How do you see Illyriad fitting within this definition?


I am going to repost the above questions since it seems you have moved on or are unwilling to answer them.

I will add, In your OP you jump from a generalized "most persons"  to  adolescent development with regard to online gaming.  What development stage do you feel "most persons" in the Illyriad community are in?    

Further, how familiar are you with Illyriad history?  You seem to be asking for more self policing, correct?  Self policing efforts can be found throughout Illyriad's rich history of community.  Which of these efforts are you advocating? which of these efforts are you warning against?  Are we to consider "most persons" adolescents when developing self policing rules?


Finally, You are aware there is a very good example of an "adolescents" growth via interaction with Illyriad and its community.  You might want to look into it because it counters all your linked research into what/how violent video games are supposed to influence things.  I would postulate that this is because Illyriad doesn't fall into any of the definitions of researched violent games.  


~Anjire


 

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ajqtrz View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Thexion Thexion wrote:

In my opinion personification of your adversaries or your character in game is not a good thing.

In my opinion it is the personification that leads into problems that AJ links in studies, players should not actually live the game but just play it. Therefore solution is not about making games healthy environment for living since game should not be your life in the first place. I have not read those studies (and I dont have time) but I'm pretty sure the results are not from casual players that have good life in general.


It's interesting that your response to people who "actually live the game" includes the judgment that they should "just play it."  You do see, don't you, that you are judging those who "live the game" and imply that their doing so is what they should not be doing?   It is, I think, nearly impossible to comment upon the actions and attitudes of others without making such judgments.  But given that some people do spend a lot of time in Illy, shouldn't we try to make it as healthy as we can?  I choose to live on a houseboat that doesn't mean I should just accept a dirty river or move to dry land. 

As for the results of the various studies, you are correct that the more time you spend and the longer you play, the greater the impact.  But that's not surprising since that's true of just about any activity in which we engage.  I guess one question is to what degree should we make Illyriad safe even for those who do spend a lot of time here?

But you also imply that he effects of gaming are due to prolonged exposure.  In fact some studies suggest that the more intense the experience the shorter the time needed to effect offline behaviors.  The effect of an intensely violent video game may last for hours even with a casual or new player.  But there are still a lot of questions being asked and we are, in fact, still figuring out the right questions to ask and how to ask them.

AJ
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ajqtrz View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Anjire Anjire wrote:

In reading through your linked research, I could not find what their definition of what they consider a "violent video game."  Can you point this definition out or at  the least define it in your own words so that there is a basis of discussion to work upon.  Further, How do you see Illyriad fitting within this definition?


I apologize if I didn't answer the question before.  Here is my answer:  almost universally the mention Call of Duty.  They occasionally mention (when discussing moral choices) Grand Theft Auto.  Other than that I'm still searching for the standards.  But my point is not the violent video games so much as the effects of gaming, in general, on offline decisions.  The evidence is that online games do effect offline performances, but in both a positive and negative manner.  So it's probably not the game, but how the game is played that counts, and for how long.

Originally posted by Anjire Anjire wrote:

I am going to repost the above questions since it seems you have moved on or are unwilling to answer them.

I will add, In your OP you jump from a generalized "most persons"  to  adolescent development with regard to online gaming.  What development stage do you feel "most persons" in the Illyriad community are in?    

Further, how familiar are you with Illyriad history?  You seem to be asking for more self policing, correct?  Self policing efforts can be found throughout Illyriad's rich history of community.  Which of these efforts are you advocating? which of these efforts are you warning against?  Are we to consider "most persons" adolescents when developing self policing rules?

Finally, You are aware there is a very good example of an "adolescents" growth via interaction with Illyriad and its community.  You might want to look into it because it counters all your linked research into what/how violent video games are supposed to influence things.  I would postulate that this is because Illyriad doesn't fall into any of the definitions of researched violent games.  

~Anjire

The jump from "most persons" to "adolescent development" without a clear distinction was a mistake.  So far effects of online gaming, violent or not, are most measurable in adolescent development.  However, the effects are also measurable in other, older groups, as well.  Thus, the "most persons" was probably thinking of a broader context and then switching to a more restricted one in my mind.  I should have made a better transition.

" S elf policing" is always preferred to being policed by others.  If every person in Illy were to "self-police" and we all agreed on what things were allowable and what not, there would be no need for a cooperative policing...meaning when the community decides to discipline a member for not "self-policing."  Ultimately I'm for education of each player in the fine art of being ethical toward his or her fellow Illy players.  Perfection is never reachable, but progress toward it is required.

Of course, if you mean by "self policing" that we, the players do that, it may mean that there may be  rare instances where it is needed.  But if we have consensus that certain actions are not allowed it is almost always enough to keep new players, (and old I suppose) from engaging in those behaviors if only because most people value their reputation and when you go against what the group wants you always pay price....I think I know a bit about that...LOL.

As for who polices, when, and who gets policed, that is an ongoing discussion.  But certainly the age of the player is to be considered.  More importantly though is that in each situation I think the least amount of "persuasion" necessary to persuade should be used.  This includes a vet just talking to the player evidence in hand, his alliance working with him, and some time for him or her to be trained about what is and is not allowed, especially if he or she gives evidence that he or she is willing to change.  Razing cities should be the very last and final stage of a reasonably long process.  As two who does such a thing, it would probably be those most affected by the problem.  But that's way ahead of ourselves as we do not yet have a consensus.

And you are right, Illyriad does not fall into the same category of violence as CoD or GTA.  But there is violence in it, and there are unethical actions taken.  The question is not of violence, but of unjustified and unnecessary violence.  And of intimidation by threats of coercion, which is a (implied) form of violence.

More to the point is, the studies quoted are not all on violent games and their effects.  Some of them cover games which are not violent and do, in fact, demonstrate some positive influences on adolescents.  The point is that online gaming effects our offline selves in some way and to some degree, and therefore, we ought to be conscious of the fact that gaming IS personal.

Finally, I would like to see the evidence that online interaction with Illyriad has a positive influence on adolescent development as it would be fascinating and help me figure out better how encourage such a positive outcome.

AJ


Edited by ajqtrz - 28 Jan 2016 at 21:46
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ajqtrz View Drop Down
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Points: 500 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ajqtrz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2016 at 21:44
Anjire,

Sorry I missed one question.  At what stage of moral development are most players in Illy?  I'm actually preparing a post on moral development stages and will be letting posters answer that via discussion in that post.  Good timing for the question though.

AJ
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Points: 433 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scottfitz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2016 at 23:35
I'll take a regiment of pigs on the wing
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abstractdream View Drop Down
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Points: 1857 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abstractdream Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2016 at 01:15
...am I the only one who has taken to literally scrolling past ajqtrz's posts and reading the posts of those willing to read his yards of text for the summation? I have to admit, I've managed to find some bit of entertainment in these threads reading them in that way.
Bonfyr Verboo
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