| Author |
 Topic Search
 Topic Options
|
Myr 
Forum Warrior
Joined: 26 May 2011
Location: Orlando, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 437 |
 Topic: When does 'aid' become 'enable'?
Posted: 20 Jun 2012 at 03:46 |
When does aiding a smaller player cross the line into enabling that player to become complacent and think that all their Illy issues will be dealt with by others?
For example, several months ago, I helped a leader of a small alliance in a dispute with another player about city placement. I helped because the alliance leader didn't have military to defend himself or the alliance. At that time I advised the alliance leader to at least have troops to defend his own cities and preferably the alliance as well.
Fast forward a ways and that alliance leader is in the same position. Still no troops to defend itself from intruders and begging others for help. He is told to go ahead and remove the city, he didn't and didn't bother to find anyone to do it. Now the city is considerably larger, and they are sorry they didn't do it before. I am sorry I ever helped this player in the first place because I have enabled them to become complacent and that didn't help them in their game development; they learned nothing.
Where exactly is the fine line between helping and hindering? When I joined Illy and the alliance was attacked we took our tiny little armies and fought them off ourselves, I'm sure many of you have had the same experience. Are we making Illy better by our interference's or worse?
|
 |
Quackers
Forum Warrior
Joined: 19 Nov 2011
Location: Jeff City
Status: Offline
Points: 435 |
Posted: 20 Jun 2012 at 04:28 |
|
I'll email you what I wish to say because people may be upset if I write it all.
We are here to help each other with any burdens we may have. But, we must let each person test his own work. If they are able to carry the load themselves then we must allow them to carry it. When a load becomes a burden (something someone cannot handle alone) then we must help.
Though when a person feels entitled to help or when they start to get irresponsible we must back off and let them figure it out for themselves. We must also make sure that helping does not become a burden to ourselves.
When we help we are trying to help that person better themselves. Once that betterment stops taking place, we must stop helping. If we continue to help we will only be hurting that person in the long run.
I can continue but I feel this is enough.
I will say more in the in game message I will send you. :)
Edit: Never mind I think I said enough. :P
Edited by Quackers - 20 Jun 2012 at 04:33
|
|
Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so you will not be dependent on anybody.
|
|
Subatoi
Forum Warrior
Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 380 |
Posted: 20 Jun 2012 at 05:18 |
|
Let people struggle on there own if they are in an alliance, theres a line imo from having a few close allies and having every old alliance your ally in case the road gets tough.
Edited by Subatoi - 20 Jun 2012 at 05:20
|
|
Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903 |
Posted: 20 Jun 2012 at 06:28 |
A lot of Illy problems are solved by discussion and persuasion. This is certainly true for larger alliances. I think it's a double standard to insist that smaller alliances and players use troops to solve their differences when larger alliances use diplomacy. If a smaller alliance asks for help in mediation or what have you, I help if I can; I don't have the time or energy to intervene in every situation where someone asks for my assistance. As my alliances increase in size, I barely have the time or energy to deal with our own issues!
When I encounter a situation like this, I generally recommend that the alliance or newb follow two paths: Attempt a diplomatic solution and build for military action if necessary. Ideally, if they have followed this advice, they will have gained both the diplomatic and military skills to resolve the problems themselves, perhaps with additional coaching.
|
|
Marquesta
Wordsmith
Joined: 31 Jul 2011
Location: Nevada, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 180 |
Posted: 20 Jun 2012 at 07:17 |
|
Indeed there is a line that we must draw in aiding our fellows in Illy, but there is also the issue of believing that people can be allowed to play the game in their own way, which I think is really the magic of Illy. And as long as we agree that people should be allowed to play the game in their own way, we must then defend that belief against those that would try to run roughshod over the rest of us.
Maybe the player didn't have the backing until recently. Possibly the player didn't have the resources available to build up an army to the size that they thought was needed. Or, perhaps, the player thought the other player had left the game, for some reason, and they thought they had no need to rush into wasting resources on a large army they were lead to believe they wouldn't need.
I am privy to at least some of the intimate details of this ongoing issue. There are so many layers to this that is a bit like a baklava pastry, but some of the layers are rotten. Perhaps, the 'lesson' as it were, was not adequately taught and the rotten layers still need to be purged. But, this is just my humble, and neutral, opinion.
|
|
~~Marquesta
Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing, end them...
|
|
Rasak
Wordsmith
Joined: 26 Nov 2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 140 |
Posted: 20 Jun 2012 at 07:55 |
 Rill wrote:
A lot of Illy problems are solved by discussion and persuasion. This is certainly true for larger alliances. I think it's a double standard to insist that smaller alliances and players use troops to solve their differences when larger alliances use diplomacy.
|
I disagree with this. Having the troops to back up your position allows you the ability to speak at a diplomatic conference. If you don't have the troops you will be the weaker party and most likely subject to the whims of the stronger. This is how it is in every situation in life. You only have the voice given to you by the stronger party, and they tend to only give that to you when you have the strength to enforce your position. Now this isn't always true. There are times the stronger party stands on noble principles and allows the lesser to speak and heeds what they say, but history shows the former tends to prevail.
With this said, I hope I belong to the later and strive towards that end, but no one knows how they will act in a givin situation until they are neck deep in it.
*Edited to make the post more readable
Edited by Rasak - 20 Jun 2012 at 08:14
|
|
Avion
Wordsmith
Joined: 09 May 2012
Location: Meilla
Status: Offline
Points: 111 |
Posted: 20 Jun 2012 at 14:38 |
|
I doubt there are any hard and fast rules regarding helping. Every situation will be different and given the same situation, different players/alliances would likely make different decisions about helping. In your example we don't know the weaker player's side of things - maybe he is worried about this growing non-alliance city for no reason. He needs to talk to that city's owner. If his alliance has a formal agreement with yours, then I guess you would be obligated to help defend him when he is under attack but not necessarily to help him get rid of what he might incorrectly perceive as a threat.
|
|
Suppose they gave a war and nobody came?
|
|
Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903 |
Posted: 20 Jun 2012 at 16:03 |
Rasak wrote:
history shows the former tends to prevail.
With this said, I hope I belong to the later and strive towards that end, but no one knows how they will act in a givin situation until they are neck deep in it.
|
As you note, Rasak, we have a choice. We make our history; we are not the insensate pawns of it.
|
|
Subatoi
Forum Warrior
Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 380 |
Posted: 20 Jun 2012 at 16:11 |
|
Some would say our paths have already been chosen, we could be the pawns of history.
|
|
geofrey
Postmaster General
Joined: 31 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1013 |
Posted: 20 Jun 2012 at 18:30 |
|
Do what you want, when you want to. Just be aware that all actions have consequences and nothing ever ends.
|
|
|
|
Tweet
When does 'aid' become 'enable'?