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Manannan 
Postmaster
Joined: 22 Mar 2011
Location: Mystical Mists
Status: Offline
Points: 576 |
 Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 03:29 |
 SunStorm wrote:
Yeah, I had thought about that... all diplomats and armies can still get through. LoL - so it sounds like a good idea in theory, but not in practice.
*contemplates moving to the Illyriad moon*
Hey - GMs/Devs - Since Illyriad is a fictional place, how many moons does it have? (0.o)
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Logic and scientific research says one... I only see one through my research, that being the one at the top of the screen that shows the lunar phase. That would be the one in phase with the RL one. Same as the seasons are (near enough) in phase with the RL ones.
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Doesn't look good... doesn't look bad either!
"Manananananananananan, so long Sir, and thanks for all the fish." ~ St.Jude
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Manannan
Postmaster
Joined: 22 Mar 2011
Location: Mystical Mists
Status: Offline
Points: 576 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 03:34 |
Rill wrote:
It might be an interesting challenge sir, to see whether a wargamer could drive a peaceful player out of Illy -- or whether a peaceful player could drive a wargamer out. If anyone is interested in this sort of challenge, contact me in game and we can decide on the rules, including what would constitute "being driven out."
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Refer to my IGM... The later is already in progress technically.
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Doesn't look good... doesn't look bad either!
"Manananananananananan, so long Sir, and thanks for all the fish." ~ St.Jude
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Kurfist
Postmaster
Joined: 14 Apr 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 824 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 03:35 |
Rill wrote:
Kurdruk said:
But whatever style you choose, the wargamers have the trump card: a wargamer can drive the peaceful players out of the game; they do not have any equivalent power.
I do not agree.
It might be an interesting challenge sir, to see whether a wargamer could drive a peaceful player out of Illy -- or whether a peaceful player could drive a wargamer out. If anyone is interested in this sort of challenge, contact me in game and we can decide on the rules, including what would constitute "being driven out."
All in good fun, of course.
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Wargamers have the trump card in theory, but pacifists have the power of Illy NATO on their side, we've all seen what happens to the Wargamer when he attacks a supposedly *says supposedly because who knows for sure the victim is a pacifist?* peaceful non pvp player. He gets killed for breaching the players rights.
Another thing, we know there are unwritten laws, write the damn laws <.<
It's confusing as hell when you're confident theres some sort of rights law in NATO illy that prohibits action X but you dont know the details so you go ahead and so on.
Edit:
and another thing, lets go form some new nations other then NATO.
Edited by Kurfist - 28 Oct 2011 at 03:37
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Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin
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Manannan
Postmaster
Joined: 22 Mar 2011
Location: Mystical Mists
Status: Offline
Points: 576 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 03:50 |
Kurfist wrote:
Wargamers have the trump card in theory, but pacifists have the power of Illy NATO on their side, we've all seen what happens to the Wargamer when he attacks a supposedly *says supposedly because who knows for sure the victim is a pacifist?* peaceful non pvp player. He gets killed for breaching the players rights.
Another thing, we know there are unwritten laws, write the damn laws <.<
It's confusing as hell when you're confident theres some sort of rights law in NATO illy that prohibits action X but you dont know the details so you go ahead and so on.
Edit:
and another thing, lets go form some new nations other then NATO.
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Firstly the pacifists don't need the Illy NATO on their side to make a player to quit regardless of if the player is a warmonger or not. Maybe an Illy UN (yes I know this sounds kind of like the IllySPN network from the last tournament) wouldn't be such a bad idea. I know it has been banded about by a whole load of alliance leaders for a few months... Don't deny it you buggers!
Secondly NATO is
NOT a nation!!! It's a multi-national defence pact! Mainly North America and Western Europe. Yes it's basically a coalition... Conspiracy theorists can make what they want to from that.
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Doesn't look good... doesn't look bad either!
"Manananananananananan, so long Sir, and thanks for all the fish." ~ St.Jude
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SunStorm
Postmaster
Joined: 01 Apr 2011
Location: "Look Up"
Status: Offline
Points: 979 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 03:52 |
Kurfist wrote:
Illyriad is NOT fictional! <.< |
(0.o) I recommend counseling...
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"Side? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side" ~LoTR
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LordOfTheSwamp
Forum Warrior
Joined: 23 May 2011
Location: Swamp of Fyrgis
Status: Offline
Points: 481 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 09:07 |
I'd like to make a distinction between the way the rules work, and the way the community works.
The rules absolutely favor wargamers. By wargamers, I mean people who play this as a war game - who favor military units, know how to use them, and want to use them. I do not necessarily mean aggressive or antisocial players. H? are wargamers - very impressive wargamers, as it happens.
The community is very different. This is not how the rules work, but how the dominant players choose to play within those rules. So, when people say "ah, but the evil bully cannot prosper, because of alliances / diplomacy / H? /whatever" that's what they mean. If a wargamer gets out of line, a bigger bunch of wargamers will stomp on him. That has nothing to do with the rules, and everything to do with how the big wargamers choose to exercise the power that the rules have given them. (This is also, in its detail, highly arguable. I personally think that the people who see "the community" / the lynch-mob in waiting / H? and it's hangers-on /whoever as "NATO" are either deluding themselves or just sucking up. But that's a topic for another post, no doubt.)
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"A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander.
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LordOfTheSwamp
Forum Warrior
Joined: 23 May 2011
Location: Swamp of Fyrgis
Status: Offline
Points: 481 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 09:22 |
Rill wrote:
It might be an interesting challenge sir, to see whether a wargamer could drive a peaceful player out of Illy -- or whether a peaceful player could drive a wargamer out.
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Not really.
The wargamer can launch a siege.
The peaceful player, who has small armies and hasn't bothered with the siege tech or units, either fails to defend against the siege and gets driven out, or defends himself and doesn't.
I was chatting to one small player who expects to have a siege army ready by the time he hits population 3000 in his capital. That looks very doable to me (though a slightly inefficient build!)
Meanwhile, if we take alliances like Free Trade Guild and Conclave at their words (and assume they aren't building wargame-style abilities), then what would they do if attacked by such a player? Say "ah, I shall be revenged! - see, I have placed orders on the Market!" or "mwahahahaha! now I shall retaliate by Spying you to death!"...?
They have no recourse in the rules - only (they hope!) in the community.
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"A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander.
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 09:31 |
There's one problem with your reasoning. A peaceful player has no need for armies -- and thus no need for cities to support them.
Siege all my cities to the ground, and I will simply rebuild them. I LIKE building cities.
Edited by Rill - 28 Oct 2011 at 09:33
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Thexion
Forum Warrior
Joined: 17 Apr 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 258 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 10:53 |
As I see it war is not something that player can ignore in illyriad. Game is not farmville and I don't think it should be. In my opinion war should be option for everyone also for the smaller players. But point is that even if you can't ignore war you don't have to be the aggressor if you don't wish to.
Also Id like to point out that if people quit because loosing a war and loosing part of cities its not sieging someone out. Sieging all of someones cities is and even then you can still continue if you really wish. As rill says. I don't doubt that big player with lot of diplomats could drive peaceful players out of game too with constant rampage and stopping him from building his cities.
As the same way diplomacy (not diplomatic units) and mostly diplomacy between alliances and real players, is also important in the game and cannot be ignored as many has noticed to their demise. And the game gives a good opportunity for people to discuss in the forums and in the chats.
Community of the game is important but people tend to over emphasis on it. Community is not something that has one mind and especially it does not have same opinion as I do or you do. It can only agree about some quite essential things like "new players should not be bullied out of the game".
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Southern Dwarf
Forum Warrior
Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 281 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 12:02 |
Rill wrote:
There's one problem with your reasoning. A peaceful player has no need for armies -- and thus no need for cities to support them.
Siege all my cities to the ground, and I will simply rebuild them. I LIKE building cities.
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Invitation?
I see the problems with Illyriad war now because a VALAR player destroyed my illusion of a safe place by settling nearby. I was driven by the illusion to only have Alliance and Confed players around and then this city pops up. As much as I wish to wipe that out I know it would be the end of me. But it is a security breach for me especially since I don't trust that alliance anymore since the last war and even with its reform. Paranoia gets everyone I fear.
And I would like undetectable spells which allow me to wipe that city out since magic is by far my favorable tool in Illy.
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War and Peace in Illyriad