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Ryuuku 
Greenhorn
Joined: 18 Jun 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 72 |
 Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 08:56 |
 CristinaZah wrote:
The_Dragon wrote:
CristinaZah, why you? Why not Azreil himself to start this thread?
In my
personal opinion, Valar's problem arise because of their arrogance leaders. The fact that this thread is created by you is only prove that it didn't change yet.
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Why me ? Precisely BECAUSE the leadership didn't do it. Why they didn't is an exercise in thought I am not willing to entertain at this time, and needs to be solved separately.
With the risk of repeating myself for the 3rd time even if this is only my second post, if it is true that Valar needs different leadership, how exactly do you expect this thread to be created by the existing leadership ? That's as close to Catch-22 you can get in Illyriad.
Uno wrote:
I think it was clear to everyone at this point that Azreil doesn't want to talk? |
| Player |
Role |
Status |
Total Population |
| Azreil [VALAR] |
Seeker of Orome |
Last 1-3 days |
82,925 |
Not being around makes it a bit difficult to speak.
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Here is how you do it:
1. Leave VALAR
2. Create a new Alliance, invite like-minded individuals
3. Start talking as an Alliance instead of as an individual
If I am in an alliance with an unresponsive, absent leadership, I would consider it already dead, and find something else to do. Azreil, as has been stated over and over, does not respond to any diplomacy, even before the last 1-3 days. That is probably the main reason VALAR has ended up in this spot.
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903 |
Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 09:08 |
/me applauds Cristina
Thanks for stepping forward, it's not an easy burden to bear. As people have said repeatedly, the Coalition does not want the destruction of Valar, we want honest dialogue, and I commend you for being willing to start it. Please folks, lets look for the Valar leaders who are acting like leaders, stepping up and talking to people.
Exposing oneself to criticism and being willing to take responsibility for problems that you didn't create -- that's the kind of leadership an alliance needs. That's what Valar has needed. It looks like that's what they're getting now. And I think Cristina deserves applause, not scorn.
Thanks.
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karpintero
Greenhorn
Joined: 27 Sep 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 50 |
Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 09:43 |
Rill wrote:
/me applauds Cristina
Thanks for stepping forward, it's not an easy burden to bear. As people have said repeatedly, the Coalition does not want the destruction of Valar, we want honest dialogue, and I commend you for being willing to start it. Please folks, lets look for the Valar leaders who are acting like leaders, stepping up and talking to people.
Exposing oneself to criticism and being willing to take responsibility for problems that you didn't create -- that's the kind of leadership an alliance needs. That's what Valar has needed. It looks like that's what they're getting now. And I think Cristina deserves applause, not scorn.
Thanks.
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I agree with Rill. CristinaZah should be praised for stepping forward, not met with nonsensical statements about her not being in a position to negotiate. Don't keep on insisting on "Valar leadership should step out", etc. If you are being sincere about your efforts, then at least humor her request.
All negotiations require time. At least give her the terms she requested, all you leaders of the Harmless Gang. Then she will try to do what she can. Then you wait. Can't you wait? Please don't make it sound like you are refusing negotiations. What she did is a start and without a start you cannot get to the end.
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War is ugly. Make it happy.
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lorre
Forum Warrior
Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Location: Groot Kortrijk
Status: Offline
Points: 446 |
Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 12:50 |
Uno wrote:
Rill ok, everyone except you if you feel it is necessary to nitpick on this point. A part from the fact that you aren't conducting any war action, you had already expressed in a number of posts the desire to talk about a diplomatic solution so I didn't think it is necessary to state it in every other post. In future I'll be careful to always state that Rill wants to talk *nod*
lorre wrote:
dear UNO noone of the coolition has said anything about not wanting to talk.
i wish you would learn the diffrence between valar and the coalition and vallar supporters and coalitionsupporters.
now to make sure noone is confused
jude is a valar supporter
TD is a coalition supporter.
the coalition itself has said nothing to indicate they are not talking. or not taking this serious.
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I never wrote you don't wish to talk. I wish you would learn to read and most importantly to not take everything that isn't a praise to your ego like a personal challenge.
HARMLESS vs VALAR:Ive seen things mentioned about H? and they being "bullies" or the "police" or however you want to describe it. I've also seen people gripe that there are 5 alliances going after VALAR now.
IF VALAR is SOOOO mistreated, put up or shut up people! If you think they are mistreated, JOIN THEM.. PUBLICLY declare it.. form confederations with them. help the "underdog" with military help. I know people are doing that behind the scenes.. which is another part of the game. But come on.. if you can cry about it in the forums, quit hiding in the shadows! |
So far with this attitude, H? and the whole Gankers Coalition is only proving the theorem that the biggest has all rights to behave as the bully with the smaller and the proof is in your own words and actions. You say "You are against us? Stand up and fight us". Why didn't you stand up against Spirit-Roller and fight him alone? You had to form The Gankers Coaltion to be superior in numbers and then come to the forums and play the superior and bully challenging everyone to stop you. One day you'll probably suffer the same fate and you'll whine louder than the Valar is... anyways I'm off of this discussion, after being called all sort of names turns out I was right: you messed up the whole game only to have your personal showdown with a few players. There is no "fight for the sandbox spirit of Illyriad" here, it's the exact contrary. You could have done the same without messing everything up. Your ego would have been satisfied and newbies wouldn't think that Illyriad is like any other game out there where the biggest gank the smallest.
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dear UNO
LOL, ok this is getting hilarious. First everyone likes to yell to the 4 winds that no word of peace will ever come from the Valar, but when it does everyone rushes to say that it doesn't count, for a number of reasons (valid or not, is it important?). While I agree that this is in no way an official offer for negotiations, it was a good chance for coalitions to show they are seriously pursuing something and ultimately a peace, but I don't see anything remotely comparable to what you all have been claiming. Anyways TD, both declarations of war and peace treaties and sometimes even part of negotiations occur publicly. Open a freaking History book and you will perhaps realize it. Your claims about declarations of intents belonging to the past and being uninteresting at this point, while the war is ongoing, border the pathetic. If you guys intend to nominate yourselves as the defenders of Illyriad gameplay you will better try and be transparent instead of suggesting everything should be kept secret and treating this whole issue as your "thing with Azreil and a few other guys". "I will only speak with Azreil". Bla bla bla. Which if you finally start to be honest, it is exactly what this all is about: a showdown with Azreil.
So far the peace solutions provided to the members of Valar are:
1) Overthrow Azreil (technically impossibile AFAIK)
2) Quit the alliance
What if they all quit the alliance and found one named Order of the Vaiar? Will it be all fun and games? You guys aren't being serious and most of all aren't being honest.
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The battlefield is a scene of constant chaos. The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies.
Napoleon Bonaparte
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Kilotov of DokGthung
Postmaster
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 723 |
Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 12:59 |
CristinaZah wrote:
The_Dragon wrote:
CristinaZah, why you? Why not Azreil himself to start this thread?
In my
personal opinion, Valar's problem arise because of their arrogance leaders. The fact that this thread is created by you is only prove that it didn't change yet.
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Why me ? Precisely BECAUSE the leadership didn't do it. Why they didn't is an exercise in thought I am not willing to entertain at this time, and needs to be solved separately.
With the risk of repeating myself for the 3rd time even if this is only my second post, if it is true that Valar needs different leadership, how exactly do you expect this thread to be created by the existing leadership ? That's as close to Catch-22 you can get in Illyriad.
Uno wrote:
I think it was clear to everyone at this point that Azreil doesn't want to talk? |
| Player |
Role |
Status |
Total Population |
| Azreil [VALAR] |
Seeker of Orome |
Last 1-3 days |
82,925 |
Not being around makes it a bit difficult to speak.
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awful to be in Velar right now.
i feel you....
leader absence is really hard on the morale of any ally... the more if at war whit a lot of people..
what about second in command Darkone?
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Wolfgangvondi
Wordsmith
Joined: 04 Sep 2011
Location: Orc Grand Arena
Status: Offline
Points: 106 |
Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 13:44 |
Me supports VALAR.
So much talking. And i can only understand half.
for the half i can understand... Valar supported therer conf, killing sieges against allies. Now it all ends up in a coalition trying to kill VALAR (getting to big and strong?), cuz the way the Coalition thinks and plays is the best way to play they say. ( cant Valar say the same?)
I have been helped by Valar members (and have never be one of them), and from other alliances Like the ASir (and have never be one of them). But i have never been helped by any of your do-good alliaces. SO i support the ones that have made my stay here a bit easy and bit more fun.
For me its only an war of "the world must be like i like it to be". And in that case I like to be whit the VALAR.
Wolfgangvondi
Just another Orc
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lorre
Forum Warrior
Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Location: Groot Kortrijk
Status: Offline
Points: 446 |
Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 14:02 |
well it wasnt valar supporting there confed that was PoS.
why do i still bother....
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The battlefield is a scene of constant chaos. The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies.
Napoleon Bonaparte
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Celebcalen
Forum Warrior
Joined: 18 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 288 |
Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 14:05 |
lorre wrote:
.
why do i still bother....
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Many of us ask the same question
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lorre
Forum Warrior
Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Location: Groot Kortrijk
Status: Offline
Points: 446 |
Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 14:13 |
Celebcalen wrote:
lorre wrote:
.
why do i still bother....
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Many of us ask the same question |
that was supposed to be clever?
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The battlefield is a scene of constant chaos. The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies.
Napoleon Bonaparte
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Jefke
New Poster
Joined: 08 Jun 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 26 |
Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 14:40 |
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If the goal is "remove alliance leadership",.. it looks likely to become "remove the alliance completely". Been there. Not a good place to be. I can only hope that all involved consider the results of their actions.
No alliance worth it's name can claim innocence or "the moral high ground". History will be written by those who can. But it are our choices and actions that define us, nothing else.
If you wonder; SkB will support it's allies - VALAR, ICON, ... are there more on the black list? Yet we stand for peace. So we will not attack unless being attacked.
Simple no?
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VALAR seeking terms