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jc View Drop Down
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Joined: 29 Sep 2011
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Points: 1 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: To Whom It May Concern.
    Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 19:16
Friends and colleagues -

We, the Murder of Crows, have determined that the time has arrived to make known our stance in the current conflict between a coalition of concerned alliances and the Order of the Valar. There has emerged a clear split in worldview between those who view the game as a sandbox, with the diverse tools - city-building, military, diplomatic, trade, magical, political and socially interactive - to allow all players the choices to find their own path and style of play; and those who view it as, above all, a wargame - where might makes right and dominion is the inevitable endgame.

We take this measure not in haste, but with all due deliberation, and only after thoughtful discussion both internally and with the arrayed coalition leaders. Though it is traditional to demonize your opponent in the run up to and during hostilities, we wish it known that we do not condemn the Valar as inherently evil, nor do we wish to see them removed wholesale from the Illyriad landscape. However, given their consistent record of both words and actions apparently aimed at destabilizing the status quo collectively evolved by this community over time and towards a more nakedly aggressive landscape, we are forced to conclude that they have demonstrated an intransigence that must be countered if we are to preserve what so many of us find unique and compelling about Illyriad.

Therefore, in support of our previously existing confederations and in concordance with this coalition of like-minded friends, we hereby declare a State of War with the Order of the Valar.

respectfully,
ScottFitz, Raritor & King EAM, on behalf of the allied Murder of Crows.


[edited to improve readibilty - no content altered.]


Edited by jc - 29 Sep 2011 at 19:27
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Ander View Drop Down
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Points: 1269 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 19:29
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. 

Their very kindness stings with intolerable insult. 

 - C. S. Lewis, God in the Dock


Edited by Ander - 29 Sep 2011 at 19:30
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StJude View Drop Down
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Points: 568 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 19:32
Originally posted by Ander Ander wrote:

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. 

Their very kindness stings with intolerable insult. 

 - C. S. Lewis, God in the Dock

Damn...thread over imo.
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Rill View Drop Down
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Points: 6903 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 20:16
Does loving your enemy mean not punishing him? No, for loving myself does not mean that I ought not to subject myself to punishment -- even to death. If one had committed a murder; the right thing to do would be to give yourself up to the police and be hanged.  ... War is a dreadful thing, and I can respect an honest pacifist, though I think he is entirely mistaken.  ...  We may kill if necessary, but we must not hate and enjoy hating. We may punish if necessary, but we must not enjoy it. … Even while we kill and punish we must try to feel about the enemy as we feel about ourselves -- to wish that he were not bad, to hope that he may, in this world or another, be cured: in fact, to wish his good.

C.S. Lewis, in one of a series of lectures given on the radio during the Second World War, explaining why he supported the war


Edited by Rill - 29 Sep 2011 at 20:17
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Qwazar View Drop Down
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Points: 9 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 20:16
+10 Ander....Kudos and regards
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Qwazar View Drop Down
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Points: 9 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 20:50

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
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Uno View Drop Down
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Points: 101 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 20:51
I don't think the mindset of the Murder of Crows players is different than that of Order of Valar players or any other involved in the conflict.
To sum it up: Because we don't like your approach to the game, we declare war. The funniest part however, is that the disliked approach regards wars.
Eréc of Caer Uisc
King of Dyfneint
Indomiti Alliance
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Points: 50 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 21:08
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

 We may punish if necessary, but we must not enjoy it. … Even while we kill and punish we must try to feel about the enemy as we feel about ourselves -- to wish that he were not bad, to hope that he may, in this world or another, be cured: in fact, to wish his good.

I think some people are already enjoying the "punishment", AKA a severe bully-beating, that they are administering. Judges hand out the appropriate punishments, not the death penalty at every minor infraction.



Originally posted by Uno Uno wrote:

To sum it up: Because we don't like your approach to the game, we declare war. The funniest part however, is that the disliked approach regards wars.

The chance to eliminate a powerful rival alliance is too tempting to resist. Even at the cost of destroying the cities of players who did not even raise a hand against them. Valar is not innocent, but let those who have not sinned cast the stones of war. And I do not think all these anti-Valar alliances are as righteous as they claim to be. I do not believe for a second that they are doing this most sincerely for the community. They are just doing this for themselves.
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Rill View Drop Down
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Points: 6903 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 21:12
Originally posted by Uno Uno wrote:

I don't think the mindset of the Murder of Crows players is different than that of Order of Valar players or any other involved in the conflict.
To sum it up: Because we don't like your approach to the game, we declare war. The funniest part however, is that the disliked approach regards wars.

I oppose war inflicted by others on those who don't want it.  When I hear Valar say they don't want war and are willing to live and let live, I will be the first to speak for them.  (If The_Dude doesn't beat me to it.)
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Points: 89 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 21:14
@ Qwazar:

Really? 
Niemoller?

THAT'S not blowing this out of context or anything.

Quoting that speech should be a corollary to Godwin's Law.

It's a game people. Let's leave the Nazi allusions at the door.
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