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Angrim
Postmaster General
Joined: 02 Nov 2011 Location: Laoshin Status: Offline Points: 1173 |
Posted: 20 Aug 2013 at 01:38 |
Arakamis wrote:
While we are at being realistic, leaving a city undefended just because it has walls has nothing to do with being realistic. Walls cannot fight for you and gates are easy to open especially when the city is left defenseless.
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all good, except that i understand that, in an attack on the city, the
underlying terrain is used, not the buildings terrain present
inside the city. if my infantry were assumed to be defending within the walls, i ought to have the benefit of the buildings terrain for them. that is not the case, and yet i have to evacuate the city to keep my excitable brethren from venturing out to be slaughtered on the plains.
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DeathDealer89
Postmaster
Joined: 04 Jan 2012 Status: Offline Points: 944 |
Posted: 20 Aug 2013 at 04:55 |
Considering realistically your population wouldn't increase by the blacksmith being slightly better at his job. Also as it turns out building a 'mage tower' doesn't in produce mana in RL.
So lets stop worrying about realistic and worry about whats entertaining. Lest the new cathedral will take 20 years to build.
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Kumomoto
Postmaster General
Joined: 19 Oct 2009 Status: Offline Points: 2224 |
Posted: 20 Aug 2013 at 05:12 |
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I think Nok's idea bears merit... You can torch the buildings outside the city, namely food, iron stone, wood and clay. The longer you remain in "occupation" with your siegeless army, the more levels those buildings lose. Eventually, lack of food will crush the city (provided you have a blockade up and they aren't bringing food in)... New tactic to "starve them out"!
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Yhina
Greenhorn
Joined: 04 May 2012 Status: Offline Points: 61 |
Posted: 02 Oct 2013 at 09:23 |
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In short, what you guys want is to make cavalry even more OP by allowing to "fast raze". If they were to destroy res plots, same thing would happen, as t2 buildings would colapse and once farms are touched, any other building aswell. It would be even faster than a siege with siege weapons. All in the name of realisim... Realisim that is only applied "partially". When a army goes on a simple attack just carries some food and some limited logistic, they are not meant to camp the countryside creating havoc.
I always thought walls to be fences, as even at their max level, they still allow cavalry to get in, as if an armoured warhorse could jump them, and just grant defenders the benefit of "matching in stats" to the attackers ( 1 to 1, give or take).
Maybe a modified Raid could be used to set terror in the countryside, but it should have penalties aswell. Time consuming, something like an encapment, where defenders can bring reinforcements to destroy the happy raiders around their lands. And that's not even considering that as the army scatters around the land they become more vulnerable, to both regulars and just regular folks...
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Grego
Postmaster
Joined: 09 May 2010 Location: Klek Status: Offline Points: 729 |
Posted: 02 Oct 2013 at 10:20 |
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Direct attacks without siege engines can already decrease population in cities which have resource production in red.
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Rhino70
New Poster
Joined: 10 Jul 2012 Status: Offline Points: 22 |
Posted: 03 Oct 2013 at 00:56 |
I have to agree with Angrim. Until this game has better defensive mechanics, it seems like a waste to keep troops in a city while an army attacks. Our past tourneys have been a prime example. Players would send larger clearing armies and then hold with smaller elite armies so the losses were easier to swallow (Especially on Cav squares- which so happen to be where most players settled due to needing a 7 food plot). Nobody was really leaving a large army there to take a beating unless the terrain allowed a better defense. I remember when this game used to give the defending army the advantage, then mid tourney, it was completely shifted to the attackers that had the advantage. Maybe meeting in the middle would be a better compromise. Then you might see more players keeping troops at home/on tourney squares and engaging in a more "fair" fight. Just my two cents on the matter.
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Thexion
Forum Warrior
Joined: 17 Apr 2010 Status: Offline Points: 258 |
Posted: 04 Oct 2013 at 19:00 |
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I think population and building decoupling would be good development for the game.
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geofrey
Postmaster General
Joined: 31 May 2011 Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
Posted: 04 Oct 2013 at 20:52 |
The city wall is the incentive to leave your army to defend a direct attack against your city. It is effective. The fear of 40K Spearmen behind a city wall, even on plains, is enough to keep a 20K cavalry from wanting to attack. Throw in potential terrain and prestige bonuses and it gets worse.
Defending an attack is doable. The big problem is that there isn't that great of an incentive to attack a city. If I declare war on Sloter(sorry, using you as an example), why would I want to direct attack his city? At the most i would be sending my men to die in an attempt to steal basic resources. The only time I would want to do that is if Sloter has no allies and I can "blockade" him and cut him off from resources by constantly stealing his basic resources.
So stealing resources can be effective, but not if it cost me 4 months worth of military units and all the resources to make them. There isn't a very good trade off at all. Especially if you consider using crafted weapons and armor. hours and hours of gathering spent just to steal 200,000 iron?
I propose a different model. One that no one is going to like: Taxation. If I send an army to Sloter's town and kill all of his men in a bloody battle worthy of remembrance in the Jedi archives, I should be able to leave my army there and force his town to pay me taxes. 1/10 of all gold produced gets sent to me. 1/10 of all military created gets sent to me. 1/10 of all resources gathered gets sent to me. And lastly 1/10 of all resource crafted gets sent to me.
If Sloter doesn't like it, he can try to remove my troops from his town.
This Marshall Law/taxation would result in a new tactic to be used for war. New strategic targets (instead of plains cities with a neighboring large mountain) when attacking enemies. Large incentives to not let enemy troops into your city. Allow more strategy instead of stacking the largest army. Now a small army can be just as big of a nuisance as a large army.
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DeathDealer89
Postmaster
Joined: 04 Jan 2012 Status: Offline Points: 944 |
Posted: 04 Oct 2013 at 21:34 |
Taxation would result in a lot of people just being perma taxed. Doesn't pass the fun test devs already said so.
I do agree that attacking should have more incentive though.
I think troops should be able to grab gold. I think this would be easy to implement, and large forces could take 1M gold. Would at least be a detriment to the dodging player.
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Hora
Postmaster
Joined: 10 May 2010 Status: Offline Points: 839 |
Posted: 04 Oct 2013 at 21:43 |
/me has enough gold... and most hidden in hubs...
Perhaps occupying armies don't send stuff home as in tribute, but simply block the town from producing items besides food to sustain the population? Perhaps add the possibility to take some already produced stuff from the warehouse (weapons, etc...)?
If any big alliance would do this for too long, that would be bad PR, thus won't happen outside of conflicts...
Edited by Hora - 04 Oct 2013 at 21:43
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