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Brids17 View Drop Down
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Points: 1483 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2013 at 17:02
Originally posted by Myr Myr wrote:

Trivium is at war with Valar and had a siege up. EE attacked that siege.

EE is at war with Dlords and had a siege up. Trivium attacked that siege.

Why is the second one so much worse than the first one? They look pretty similar to me.

Last I checked Trivium and Dlords don't have a confederation, let alone a long standing relationship with them. It's pretty different for a confederation to help each other than it is for a month and a half old NAP alliance to jump into a war just because they can. 
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Points: 915 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2013 at 17:28
seems this might be more of a strategy move, very interesting. beware of who ur big neighbor is, someday they might value your land....this game is getting more and more territorial, it would be horrible if other alliances that have members spread across the map get involved. watch what path your leadership takes alliance members, u might end up paying for the ticket, always remember u can sit out this war by going to neutral alliances!
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Points: 151 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2013 at 17:31
This thread is a bit amusing I suppose. A huge war is going on, a minor alliance is used as a pawn in the war and eventually gets war declared on them for it...  is there anything else to this?  Seems like 4 pages of going over the obvious?  

So what about other things...   is there going to be a tourney soon?  In honor of Illy's 3rd anniversary coming up?   If so....  will everyone participate ?  ...   anyone ?


Edited by Le Roux - 20 Jan 2013 at 18:30
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abstractdream View Drop Down
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Points: 1857 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2013 at 19:34
Originally posted by Brids17 Brids17 wrote:

Originally posted by abstractdream abstractdream wrote:

You constantly (the use of that word is a bit much but since you guys killed so much more of ours than we did of yours, I figured I could use it as well) attacked our siege and refused to declare war. I don't see a difference.

Are you kidding? If someone punched you, that's assault. If you punch them back, that's self defense. Two entirely different things. You can't send a siege against someone and then when they retaliate and criticize you for it, call them hypocrites. And for the record, I think they're letting you guys off pretty easy, even if their hands are tied due to the war. If you tried the same stunt with mCrow you'd have a lot more to worry about than a war declaration and a forum post. 


Just to be clear: TVM did not send a siege against EE.

Also, you are saying mCrow policy is to declare war on the alliance they send siege breakers against? Because that is what EE did NOT do when they attempted to break our siege on a VALAR city, who by the way has not posted a thread in the Illy Forum to smear us.
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abstractdream View Drop Down
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Points: 1857 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2013 at 19:37
Originally posted by Mandarins31 Mandarins31 wrote:


Originally posted by abstractdream abstractdream wrote:

Without declaring war on us you attacked our siege on a VALAR city, one of your Confederates. In my opinion, doing that without a declaration was fine.

Indeed, you have to expect alliances of a same side in a war to help each  others.

Originally posted by abstractdream abstractdream wrote:

Siege breaking is a time honored tradition here in Illyriad. [...] we don't feel ONLY attacking armies in the field is an act of war. Guess we were wrong.

I thought exactly the same, but H? declared war against VIC and Absa because they broke a siege; they were "ONLY attacking armies in the field". Apparently we both are wrong, Abstractdream.

If you're neutral and want to respect this tradition, you should send units towards any siege, not regarding who owns the siege. If you focus your attacks against only one side you naturally will be considered as an ennemy by this side.




You are correct, we are not neutral. I do not begrudge the declaration, only the theatrics attempted by EE's leader to make TVM look "trivial."
Bonfyr Verboo
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abstractdream View Drop Down
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Points: 1857 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2013 at 19:42
Originally posted by Ander Ander wrote:


Originally posted by Myr Myr wrote:


Trivium is at war with Valar and had a siege up. EE attacked that siege.

EE is at war with Dlords and had a siege up. Trivium attacked that siege.

Why is the second one so much worse than the first one? They look pretty similar to me.


I suppose everything is a blur for Myr, but I have marked the worst part (and the first part) in bold. 





Again, the point of this was to paint TVM with a certain color while keeping EE as it's "pure" original color. EE did exactly what we did but expects us to live up to a higher standard. Hypocritical.
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abstractdream View Drop Down
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Points: 1857 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2013 at 19:53
Originally posted by Elmindra Elmindra wrote:

I would add to this as well if possible.  The player reference whom is a friend is Fromfrak, who was in TLR.  I have defended many a siege on fellow Druids members in the north, and every single siege was reinforced by members of TLR who now comprise Trivium.  

Don't pretend that you only had a dog in this fight because of a loss of troops on a siege on Valar.  You have been in this fight before Trivium was even formed, so what exactly do you expect to happen.


What? That very siege you mention was (one of) our "dogs in the fight." We (some of us anyway) have indeed been in this since before TRIVIUM was formed. What has that got to do with EE accusing us of "constantly attacked seiges that we are performing and refuse to declare war"? What I expect to happen is we defend ourselves against hatchet job statements. EE's leader made a misrepresentational statement, we are defending ourselves.
Bonfyr Verboo
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Rill View Drop Down
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Points: 6903 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2013 at 20:00
Let's note here that Bonfyr Verboo of TVM and Wilberforce of N are alts.  There is nothing secret about this.  Wilberforce was involved in the war through N.

 Bonfyr Verboo and Abraxox, who are friends in real life, dragged their former alliance, TLR, into a war on behalf of an alt.  (Through for example sieges on Dwarven Druids.)

The Duke of Shade objected to this behavior, and their alliance leader, Eternal Fire, did not support it.  

In response, Bonfyr Verboo and Abraxox took a group of their followers from TLR to form Trivium, leaving their former TLR alliance mates to face the consequences of their actions.  Which, to his credit, Eternal Fire did, and has earned my respect in so doing.

Trivium has been at war with Consone since before it was even formed.  They have reinforced sieges on Consone members and launched their own sieges at times.  EE has decided to recognize these actions with a declaration of war.

In describing the flow of history as I understand it, I am not making judgments (except for my increased respect for Eternal Fire, as noted).  But let's call a spade a spade.

Re-edited:  It is apparently now possible to edit the titles of forum posts.  I had tried to do this a while back and failed.  Good to know.


Edited by Rill - 21 Jan 2013 at 02:19
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abstractdream View Drop Down
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Points: 1857 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2013 at 20:00
Originally posted by Elmindra Elmindra wrote:


No and No Abraxox.  Number 1, you sieged a confed so expect for that siege to be attacked.  Anything different would be idiotic and I refuse to believe you are that dumb.  Number 2, Trivium itself may be a new alliance but you have been assisting in offensive sieges to "help" your friend Fromfrak since the beginning of the war.  Your members in Trivium helped raze a number of Druids towns in Ursor while they were still in TLR.  If you were truly content to live in peace alongside EE you would not be involved in military action.  

You come on these forums crying foul when you have been the aggressor.  Don't cry pity me when you are declared upon.



Number 1.1 We had made ZERO statements to ANYONE about Haller's attempt to break our siege before EE's silly post.

Number 2.2 We have been the aggressor against two Ursor based Druid members and when the player who was in our sights came on here and "cried pity me" we did not argue that fact. We are not declaring our "peaceful" intentions here, we are defending our name against the OP.
Bonfyr Verboo
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Points: 464 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2013 at 20:02
If you have been in this since before Trivium was formed then that has everything to do with the fact that you were helping siege our allies, attacking our sieges, and then when asked in IGM about your intentions you refused to declare.  By acknowledging this Hath made no misrepresentation of your intentions.  Attacking our allies and our sieges is not defending yourselves.  
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