Thoughts Triggered by Tolstoy's A Confession |
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ajqtrz
Postmaster Joined: 24 May 2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 14 Aug 2015 at 03:19 |
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I agree that we create our own explanations of life and thus it's meaning. However, there is a limit to which we can go. We may wish to say we are God, but when we try to walk on water we drown. Thus, the narrative we would like to construct of ourselves is always limited by our actual self. As for the dual brain phenomena, I'm going to post something on that soon......and I'll include the history of the use of metonymic and metaphoric as appropriate and useful terms. AJ |
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ajqtrz
Postmaster Joined: 24 May 2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 14 Aug 2015 at 03:37 |
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I'm reminded by your post of Victor Frankl's "Man's Search for Meaning" in which he says that a man can endure any "how" if he has a reason "why." Not sure what in your post triggered that, but there it is. I do think that it is impossible to sustain life without a drive to do so, as it is pretty obvious that forms of life without the drive to procreate would be at a severe disadvantage and probably die out pretty quickly. Perhaps the very definition of life is something that has a drive to grow and reproduce itself. Interesting. In any case, the need to explain life comes from the use of language, I think. Richard Weaver talks about "God and Devil" terms, as does Kenneth Burke (though they use the concepts in different ways, I might add). Both though, understand that language has hierarchical valuations with concepts attached to some words having more impact and others less. In the end I think, since we have a desire to continue we may use language to align the "god terms" with ourselves and the "devil terms" more with our enemies...thus creating a narrative of the hero where we are the main character. Weaver's book, "Ideas Have Consequences" is a short and easy read, btw. When I was a younger man (some would say when I was a young man but I prefer 'younger;), I thought about the drive to continue. We do so through procreation but we also want our actual self to continue. Genes are fine and we will settle biologically if we must, but most we do wish to do more than procreate, so that we, the individual me, is remembered. I wonder if that comes out of language too. As for faith, I would argue that you still have it for the beginning of faith is faith in yourself, that you are sane and sensible and thus that it is sane and sensible to put your faith in something. Once you have faith in yourself you can truly explore all sorts of dark alleys. I once didn't have faith in myself. For a couple years of my life things were pretty dark. But as I healed from the trauma I found I became a much more grateful for the things I have and less desirous of that which I merely dreamed of having. Well, sorry, I'm rambling a bit here, so I'll stop. Tomorrow I'll explore the relationship between language and meaning I think. AJ |
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Rill
Postmaster General Player Council - Geographer Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 6903 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 14 Aug 2015 at 04:05 |
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I think it goes both ways. Often the narrative we create about ourselves and the world, rather than any objective "reality" is the most limiting factor. Extreme narcissists and people with thought disorders (especially those experiencing mania) represent the opposite, overestimating their own efficacy and underestimating limitations.
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Raco
Greenhorn Joined: 29 May 2015 Location: Here Status: Offline Points: 42 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 14 Aug 2015 at 07:10 |
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Smart rationalists believe in God:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager
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abstractdream
Postmaster General Joined: 02 Oct 2011 Location: Oarnamly Status: Offline Points: 1857 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 14 Aug 2015 at 12:26 |
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Raco
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Quote Reply Posted: 14 Aug 2015 at 12:46 |
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I know. I just couldn't resist to post.
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abstractdream
Postmaster General Joined: 02 Oct 2011 Location: Oarnamly Status: Offline Points: 1857 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 14 Aug 2015 at 12:49 |
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When I use the term faith, I generally assign a "higher power" meaning to it. In a broad sense, one could not even make the mechanical motions of life without faith. I believe your curiosity about where the drive to be remembered comes is a natural extension of the drive to survive. All we do is that. Language, though it has expanded to encompass a myriad of esoteric and existential processes originally developed in a utilitarian role; as a tool. The drive to survive is where everything originates and just as language has grown, so has our understanding of life. When we project ourselves into the future we are faced with the inevitable end of our existence. From a natural evolution of our questioning comes the question of how we achieve immortality. The only attainable answer is, we do that by being remembered. |
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Angrim
Postmaster General Joined: 02 Nov 2011 Location: Laoshin Status: Offline Points: 1173 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 14 Aug 2015 at 17:41 |
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ajqtrz
Postmaster Joined: 24 May 2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 23 Aug 2015 at 21:47 |
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You've referenced Tolstoy before and I therefore thought of you when I too went to re-read some of his works. Perhaps this is not the Tolstoy of whom you were referring in you references? For no other reason than that. AJ |
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ajqtrz
Postmaster Joined: 24 May 2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jan 2016 at 22:16 |
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A short note regarding the desire of meaning. That we can predict things is related to our ability to project. I predict a car is going to crash into a wall as it passes because I can project it's future path leads to the wall. I project that my watch will stop ticking because I know that the energy used to keep it going is finite and time is not. We project into space and time, but also in ideas. We think about power. Then we think about a more powerful person, and a more powerful person than that, and then a more powerful person that than, and so on....until we stop. Why do we stop? Have we hit a wall? No, we have recognized that our imaginations can conceive of a regression so complete that it has no end. Thus, in my mind, one of tools by which we stop the infinite regressions into which we could fall, is to have what I call "capping words" by which we signal that the projection has no ending point. "Infinite" is one word. "God" and "Devil" may be capping words for "good" and "evil." The necessity of having capping words is obvious to anyone who has ever entered into those endless chains of thought you come across when you are a kid.
One of the problems for those who take meaning seriously (or who wish for eternal significance) is that they know that they cannot peek into eternity because they are finite, and thus have no certainty that what they think will last will really last. Or perhaps another way of stating it is that they long to experience the eternal in the finite. There is a book by a famous religious professor who makes the distinction that the religious person tends to see their experiences as eternal while the secular sees them as limited to the here and now. Or as he puts it, "the eternal is collapsed by the religious person into the finite". In any case, I would suggest that the search of meaning reflects either the individuals ability to tolerate temporal ambiguity or the the desire to close open ended questions. AJ |
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