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Nokigon 
Postmaster General
Player Council - Historian
Joined: 07 Nov 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1452 |
 Posted: 23 Oct 2013 at 17:21 |
To just weigh in briefly...
It has been my privilege to watch the Crowfed since a bit after the federation began. Over that time, they have grown until they are the juggernauts that can be seen today. Many changes have occurred to their organisation- some that are in my eyes good and some that are in my eyes bad- but throughout their history, they have stuck to one key principle that has bound them together- a common cause, one might say. And that is this: To stay neutral in all wars, except wars of self-defence.
However, things appear to have taken a turn for the worse recently. Now, members of the Crowfed are getting involved in wars of aggression, defying the wishes of a significant proportion of their federation, and changing the very nature of why they were founded.
The changes that are happening in the Crowfed are a matter of concern. I am not a critic of war, as many will know, but it is a major concern when a large group of alliances- larger than any other power block that has existed in this game- start fighting wars of their own. If this practice becomes commonplace, it will stifle the game. Alliances will become frightened to do anything for fear of Crow retaliation, and people will start to leave the game. I myself might do that, if the game becomes similar to the one which I described above.
I have never wanted to play a game where I am subject to the whims of a higher authority of players. The domination of the Crow Federation cannot be linked with aggressive military action, or the game will suffer.
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Aurordan
Postmaster
Player Council - Ambassador
Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 982 |
Posted: 23 Oct 2013 at 17:32 |
 Nokigon wrote:
To just weigh in briefly...
It has been my privilege to watch the Crowfed since a bit after the federation began. Over that time, they have grown until they are the juggernauts that can be seen today. Many changes have occurred to their organisation- some that are in my eyes good and some that are in my eyes bad- but throughout their history, they have stuck to one key principle that has bound them together- a common cause, one might say. And that is this: To stay neutral in all wars, except wars of self-defence.
However, things appear to have taken a turn for the worse recently. Now, members of the Crowfed are getting involved in wars of aggression, defying the wishes of a significant proportion of their federation, and changing the very nature of why they were founded.
The changes that are happening in the Crowfed are a matter of concern. I am not a critic of war, as many will know, but it is a major concern when a large group of alliances- larger than any other power block that has existed in this game- start fighting wars of their own. If this practice becomes commonplace, it will stifle the game. Alliances will become frightened to do anything for fear of Crow retaliation, and people will start to leave the game. I myself might do that, if the game becomes similar to the one which I described above.
I have never wanted to play a game where I am subject to the whims of a higher authority of players. The domination of the Crow Federation cannot be linked with aggressive military action, or the game will suffer.
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If you'd been watching a bit more closely, you would have seen that Crows have certainly been involved in conflicts, even military ones, pretty much since it's creation. Neutrality was never a characteristic of the confederation.
I also find this "stifling the game" argument a tad ironic, coming from a ranking member of Darkstar, a group
much less restrained about throwing it's weight around.
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Nokigon
Postmaster General
Player Council - Historian
Joined: 07 Nov 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1452 |
Posted: 23 Oct 2013 at 18:09 |
I expected the predictable argument about the Dominion. Let me just blow away a few cobwebs for you on that:
The Dominion is a confederation for mutual DEFENCE. If you attack one of us, you attack all of us. Helping each other in wars of aggression is rare and has only ever happened once in our history, and can only happen if this will not make the opponent vastly outnumbered.
As for the Crows, you state conflicts but no names. Show me a war of aggression from the Crows before 2013, and I will eat my words.
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ES2
Postmaster
Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 550 |
Posted: 23 Oct 2013 at 18:24 |
Nokigon wrote:
I expected the predictable argument about the Dominion. Let me just blow away a few cobwebs for you on that:
The Dominion is a confederation for mutual DEFENCE. If you attack one of us, you attack all of us. Helping each other in wars of aggression is rare and has only ever happened once in our history, and can only happen if this will not make the opponent vastly outnumbered.
As for the Crows, you state conflicts but no names. Show me a war of aggression from the Crows before 2013, and I will eat my words.
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I may be mistaken, did the Crows not unify and wipe out portions of Old Valar?
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Eternal Fire
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Aurordan
Postmaster
Player Council - Ambassador
Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 982 |
Posted: 23 Oct 2013 at 18:30 |
MCrow (I think. It could have been one of the other ones) fought in the Valar war. Getting back to before my time, I believe they fought the Mal Moshans and Dark Blight. And they've had a few proxy war type things and interventions like the Ursor whatsit.
Your "history" is like a year and a half, and in that time, you've done lots of threatening, ganging up, and taken the first opportunity to join en mass in an offensive war.
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Nokigon
Postmaster General
Player Council - Historian
Joined: 07 Nov 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1452 |
Posted: 23 Oct 2013 at 18:48 |
The war against DB was a war of defense. I don't think that any Crows joined in on the TMM war, but if they did my point on the Valar War applies to TMM too: the wars that I was referring to were wars in which alliances of the Crowfed STARTED a war due to a personal reason or vendetta. My apologies if I did not make that clear.
I'm not going to bother replying to your second paragraph. Message me if you want to continue that line of discussion further. Or, preferably, don't.
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ES2
Postmaster
Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 550 |
Posted: 23 Oct 2013 at 19:00 |
Nokigon wrote:
The war against DB was a war of defense. I don't think that any Crows joined in on the TMM war, but if they did my point on the Valar War applies to TMM too: the wars that I was referring to were wars in which alliances of the Crowfed STARTED a war due to a personal reason or vendetta. My apologies if I did not make that clear.
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To my understanding of Crowfed(my personal interpretation)
Though the confederation of Crow as a whole does not have to unify to support another wing who initiated war(or helped to begin it). So, we can see Ucrow and Vcrow engaging in conflict, but Crowfederation does not have to support, they can choose not to support the other wings.
The only time I believe you will see the entire federation acting together is if a wing is a victim of unwarranted aggression.
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Eternal Fire
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KillerPoodle
Postmaster General
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1853 |
Posted: 23 Oct 2013 at 19:15 |
Vanerin wrote:
H? emulating Rill?!
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Lol - no.
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"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM
"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill
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Aurordan
Postmaster
Player Council - Ambassador
Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 982 |
Posted: 23 Oct 2013 at 19:22 |
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I never said Crows was a horde of bloodthirsty berserkers, I was correcting your statement that the where
neutral, which is clearly not true. Your whole offensive/defensive distinction is kind of silly, honestly. Anyone can always call a war "defensive" if they make half an effort. I could say they still haven't started an offensive war yet, as clearly, uCrow is engaged in a war to support their allies against unjust NC aggression.
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KillerPoodle
Postmaster General
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1853 |
Posted: 23 Oct 2013 at 20:47 |
Aurordan wrote:
uCrow is engaged in a war to support their allies against unjust NC aggression. |
Yep, defending a 240K pop alliance against a threat of elimination is hugely unjust. I know how everyone here loves sieging 3K pop players.
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"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM
"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill
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