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The Great War
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Halcyon View Drop Down
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Points: 360 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Halcyon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2015 at 17:43
Originally posted by Tamaeon Tamaeon wrote:

In closing, I want to invite those who opposed the war and especially those who fought on the Coalition side to share of their anecdotes and thoughts about what caused the war. So far most of the comments have been focused around contesting other players opinions, rather than sharing new information.


Having been on the same side as Tama on the war it should come as no surprise that I agree with almost everything he posted in this thread concerning the views of many in the Grand Alliance about what brought the war. I also do not feel that our conduct in the war gives us any reason to apologize: we had what we had to do to win the war.
I would also like to hear more from the oposition - those who actually fought against us and those who chose not to join on either side, but watch from the sidelines.
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Tamaeon View Drop Down
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Points: 152 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tamaeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2015 at 18:56
Originally posted by Jejune Jejune wrote:

Originally posted by Captain Kindly Captain Kindly wrote:

I, too, am aware of those so-called 'fair demands'. Like Angrim, I am bound.*  However, the fact that GA refuses to discuss them openly even now should tell enough.
Now that this war is over and that it is being discussed in this forum, I think it's time for the victors to post the surrender terms. Certainly, what harm will it bring? The losers of the war accepted them and paid them, and there are obviously a lot of hard feelings about them already. No further harm can come from making them public, but there can be some good. 

As someone who was not in the war and not bound by any "gag order," I'm calling for a full disclosure of the Great War's surrender terms 

1) in the interest of full transparency 
2) so that the entire gaming community can get a clearer sense of the consequences of this war
3) so that we can learn from this war, which will undoubtedly inform how future wars are prosecuted.
I would personally support and even advocate for full disclosure, provided the coalition agrees to do the same for all conflicts starting with the Valar war. We could in theory open a new thread towards that end, discussing surrender terms objectively within the appropriate historical context.

Otherwise I'm afraid disclosure might be pointless, given that there would be no point of reference to validate the GA's efforts to offer "better" terms than those seen in previous wars.

It goes without saying that full disclosure should also include the many, many offers that were rejected!

"How happy is the blameless vestal's lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each prayer accepted, and each wish resigned."
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Epidemic View Drop Down
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Points: 768 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epidemic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2015 at 20:02
Originally posted by Halcyon Halcyon wrote:


Having been on the same side as Tama on the war it should come as no surprise that I agree with almost everything he posted in this thread concerning the views of many in the Grand Alliance about what brought the war. I also do not feel that our conduct in the war gives us any reason to apologize: we had what we had to do to win the war.
I would also like to hear more from the oposition - those who actually fought against us and those who chose not to join on either side, but watch from the sidelines.


Many of those who fought against your 'grand' alliance are no longer playing the game, since you destroyed most if not all of their cities. You razed/forced exodus just about every single player who was on the other team, regardless of if they were aggressive or peaceful, there is no disputing that fact.
And don't say they have the opportunity to rebuild, because very, very few people would even bother to rebuild an account that took 2+ years to create and a few days to destroy.

It is good to see that some of the alliances are ashamed of their conduct during the war, but it is clear that the majority, crowfed, are quite happy.

I wonder how the outcomes of the wars would have changed if permasits and gifted accounts were once and for all taken off the map.

P.S. Does anybody bother to read Tama's long propagnada sermons anymore? LOL
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Halcyon View Drop Down
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Points: 360 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Halcyon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2015 at 20:23
Players were given opportunities to leave the war. If they chose not to do it - it was their choice and they remain enemies.
I do not see any evidence that any alliance is ashamed. They have no reason to be ashamed.

I can't comment on the permasat issue since during the war all the major fighting accounts in Dark were active players.

Your accusations btw take to task our actions, but I see no evidence of any thoughts about the morality of inaction. You chose to sit it out and do nothing - is that such a moral decision?
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Rill View Drop Down
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Points: 6903 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2015 at 20:53
Epidemic didn't sit out and do nothing.  He was a major supplier of weapons to the Grand Alliance he claims to despise.  He made large amounts of gold during the war, and is constantly trying to create dissension in order to attempt to profit the same way again.



Edited by Rill - 19 Jan 2015 at 20:55
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Consul Zynot View Drop Down
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Points: 110 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Consul Zynot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2015 at 21:17
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

Epidemic didn't sit out and do nothing.  He was a major supplier of weapons to the Grand Alliance he claims to despise.  He made large amounts of gold during the war, and is constantly trying to create dissension in order to attempt to profit the same way again.



LOL i must say that was  a funny comment rill good one XD   LOL
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Tamaeon View Drop Down
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Points: 152 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tamaeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2015 at 21:29
Originally posted by Consul Zynot Consul Zynot wrote:

Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

Epidemic didn't sit out and do nothing.  He was a major supplier of weapons to the Grand Alliance he claims to despise.  He made large amounts of gold during the war, and is constantly trying to create dissension in order to attempt to profit the same way again.
LOL i must say that was  a funny comment rill good one XD   LOL
The irony is that it's actually true, and it went beyond just weapons. In fact we received billions in gold loans. I didn't mention this before, because we were asked to keep this a secret to protect Epi's neutrality, but since Rill dropped the bomb... and Zynot quoted her; Epi's involvement as one of the primary suppliers of the GA during the Great War is now a matter of public record, and therefore open to discussion.

Sorry Epi, you brought this on yourself  Dead

"How happy is the blameless vestal's lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each prayer accepted, and each wish resigned."
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abstractdream View Drop Down
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Points: 1857 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abstractdream Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2015 at 21:37
Profiteering is a dirty job, but somebody's got to do it.
Bonfyr Verboo
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Nokigon View Drop Down
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Points: 1452 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nokigon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2015 at 21:44
I'm very much in favour of revealing the terms of DBs surrender. If dittobite and the other leaders of the GA are in favour, I will post them here. However- I have agreed non disclosure so I will need specific agreement to do so.
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GM Rikoo View Drop Down
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Joined: 28 Mar 2014
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Points: 1233 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GM Rikoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2015 at 22:03
Originally posted by Nokigon Nokigon wrote:

I'm very much in favour of revealing the terms of DBs surrender. If dittobite and the other leaders of the GA are in favour, I will post them here. However- I have agreed non disclosure so I will need specific agreement to do so.

Again, I am fine with these discussions... in fact I love them. BUT, we cannot allow any posting of private conversations. (I only say this when words like "reveal" are used.) 

Why?

Because people alter them.

Also, they are kept private for a reason. If they were not, they would not be private.

Anyway, if someone wants to post some long list that came across during the war, cool, but let's just say this: if it comes in the form of IGM or PM on the forums, etc, it -- and the post it is in -- will come down and the thread will be closed. 

If posts of screenshots and copied/pasted IGMs or "chatzys" or "Facebook posts" want to be shared, fine, but not on this forum. Sorry. :)

(Not saying you offered that, Noki... just saying.)

GM Rikoo




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