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The Great War

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Angrim View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 23:35
Originally posted by Epidemic Epidemic wrote:

Am I correct in assuming your other account is Le Roux? If so, both your accounts were used to siege/raze the majority of your opponents in the northeast of Illyriad. You were probably the most destructive crow player during the war... What are your feelings about this and what is your reasoning behind the carnage?
lol. which part of "Banshee of the North" did you find equivocal?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abstractdream Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2015 at 00:18
Originally posted by GM Rikoo GM Rikoo wrote:

Each alliance (or something like that) sends a leader or rep to join me on a livestream to discuss this war, but also war in general. 

It would make for a great listen.

I wanted to cover more details about fighting anyway... why not cover a war?
GM Rikoo


I'd be very interested in listening to this. If it's gonna be focused on the last war, I would hope you can build a balanced panel. There are a whole lot more players who participated on the winning side so it shouldn't be too hard to fill that side of the table. For the loosing side, I'd like to hear (not that you asked for nominations) Starry and KP, Nokigon, Sir Bradly and Wild Monk. I think these folks would be amazing to listen to. They have a couple decades worth of Illy experience between them and tons of skill and are all extremely intelligent.

Just my 2 cents.

Edited by abstractdream - 24 Jan 2015 at 00:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mona Lisa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2015 at 00:30
Originally posted by Epidemic Epidemic wrote:

Am I correct in assuming your other account is Le Roux? If so, both your accounts were used to siege/raze the majority of your opponents in the northeast of Illyriad. You were probably the most destructive crow player during the war, besides the player who had a personal grievance with RES and mercilessly sieged/razed as many cities as he could. Did you know about this? Did you partake? What are your feelings about this and what is your reasoning behind the carnage?

Of course Le Roux is my commonly known alt (obviously I could not have been in two places at once, in both vCrow and nCrow).  As for me being the most "destructive crow player during the war" somehow I sense greatly blows out of proportion the impact I had in the overall war.  Many battles were fought in the war, many cities were razed.  I surely hold no unique place in that respect (except in the minds of my foes perhaps) I did have large armies, I did raze many cities of TVM, Dlords and H? (including some of KP's ;) nothing was personal). There were plenty of people with more combat than I in the war.

As for the strategy, you can simply look at the map and where my cities were,  I was largely in the far north, the bulk of the truly threatening Coalition cities of H?, NC, RES, Dlords lay very distant to my south. My participation in attacking any of those cities would necessitate my armies traveling a week or two in each direction.  In order for me to be able to lend assistance against the main coalition players, those cities of their allies that lay near me(often within 10-20 sq ) and along my path south, needed to be dealt with one way or another.  I could hardly sit and ignore alliances like TVM (who had no love loss with Crow), or the northern outposts of Dlords and H? when they were positioned with the ability to attack my home while my troops were weeks away.  It really is just a simple and well worn principle in military science, protect your bases and lines of supply. 

While the core of vCrow attacked  in the south, I worked my way down down the North. Strategically logical and sound.    I was methodical and efficient. If you wish to consider it ruthless, so be it.  

It may have appeared harsh to those viewing it from afar, but in reality, unless I was going to sit out the war, my options were fairly limited. 

War is . . . war , cities tend to be razed during war. Every single one of my targeted opponents was given the option of saving their properties, quite a few did.  Many exodused as my legions approached.  S ome took the stance of fighting to the death, an entirely valid option.   I literally have hundreds of IGM's discussing ways to avoid carnage.  We cannot control whether or not people negotiate.  My conscience is blissfully clear and at peace ; )

I have absolutely no regrets, nor would I have done anything different.  (hopefully at least my allies appreciated my efforts ; ) )


Edited by Mona Lisa - 24 Jan 2015 at 01:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote abstractdream Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2015 at 00:51
Originally posted by Mona Lisa Mona Lisa wrote:

... I did raze many cities of TVM,...As for the strategy, you can simply look at the map and where my cities were,  I was largely in the far north,...  In order for me to be able to lend assistance against the main coalition players, those cities of their allies that lay near me(often within 10-20 sq ) and along my path south, needed to be dealt with one way or another.  I could hardly sit and ignore alliances like TVM (who had no love loss with Crow), ...when they were positioned with the ability to attack my home while my troops were weeks away.  It really is just a simple and well worn principle in military science, protect your bases and lines of supply. 

...War is . . . war , cities tend to be razed during war. Every single one of my targeted opponents was given the option of saving their properties, quite a few did. Some took the stance of fighting to the death, an entirely valid option.   ...I have absolutely no regrets, nor would I have done anything different.
I just want to say, Mona Lisa did more for the GA's war effort than she's letting on. I don't know how far TVM would have gotten without her targeting us (we would have been knocked out sometime, just a fact) but I know there were a lot of EE (and others, likely) armies and cities that were not targeted because of her. The NE of Elgea played little part in the overall because of her.

I know war dredges up a lot of negative emotions, so some time after it I wanted to take this opportunity to comment on the effective nature of this warrior. I suppose too, it's a way to defend TVM's mostly ineffective participation in the war. I hope I've managed to do both.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tamaeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2015 at 05:08
Originally posted by abstractdream abstractdream wrote:

Originally posted by GM Rikoo GM Rikoo wrote:

Each alliance (or something like that) sends a leader or rep to join me on a livestream to discuss this war, but also war in general. 

It would make for a great listen.

I wanted to cover more details about fighting anyway... why not cover a war?
GM Rikoo
I'd be very interested in listening to this. If it's gonna be focused on the last war, I would hope you can build a balanced panel. There are a whole lot more players who participated on the winning side so it shouldn't be too hard to fill that side of the table. For the loosing side, I'd like to hear (not that you asked for nominations) Starry and KP, Nokigon, Sir Bradly and Wild Monk. I think these folks would be amazing to listen to. They have a couple decades worth of Illy experience between them and tons of skill and are all extremely intelligent. 
Just my 2 cents.
I would really like to have you Abstract, as well as Belargyle or Jack aubrey, Pellinel, Tacardi and Zenora in the discussion. Perhaps also Isabela from RE and Prares from CK who witnessed the explosion of the great war from the very beginning.
"How happy is the blameless vestal's lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each prayer accepted, and each wish resigned."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gragnog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2015 at 08:39
Originally posted by Tamaeon Tamaeon wrote:

Originally posted by abstractdream abstractdream wrote:

Originally posted by GM Rikoo GM Rikoo wrote:

Each alliance (or something like that) sends a leader or rep to join me on a livestream to discuss this war, but also war in general. 

It would make for a great listen.

I wanted to cover more details about fighting anyway... why not cover a war?
GM Rikoo
I'd be very interested in listening to this. If it's gonna be focused on the last war, I would hope you can build a balanced panel. There are a whole lot more players who participated on the winning side so it shouldn't be too hard to fill that side of the table. For the loosing side, I'd like to hear (not that you asked for nominations) Starry and KP, Nokigon, Sir Bradly and Wild Monk. I think these folks would be amazing to listen to. They have a couple decades worth of Illy experience between them and tons of skill and are all extremely intelligent. 
Just my 2 cents.
I would really like to have you Abstract, as well as Belargyle or Jack aubrey, Pellinel, Tacardi and Zenora in the discussion. Perhaps also Isabela from RE and Prares from CK who witnessed the explosion of the great war from the very beginning.


This is quite a pointless exercise as the leaders and players of many of the alliances involved in the war are pretty inactive. GA set the new standard for war and now need to deal with it. you reap what you sow. If you really want an honest discussion about war in general and this "Great War" you should get the leaders of the new alliances joining the game, the small alliances quietly going about their business, and if possible players who left due to the nature of this war. Their voices are the ones that need to be heard, not the bias rantings of those of us that are still here. The feeble excuses of why the war started and why it was so brutal has been discussed so often here it only serves as amusing reading now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote auel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2015 at 15:11
I am sure we will all want to applaud Gragnog for his, as always, positive and insightful contribution to this interesting debate.  Clap

Josiah
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2015 at 16:27
Originally posted by Gragnog Gragnog wrote:

GA set the new standard for war and now need to deal with it. you reap what you sow.
I really hope this war will NOT be the new standard!

At the beginning (or at least after reaching full escalation) there was the credo from the Coalition to never surrender and rather suicide...  well, actually a commonplace propaganda slogan, but as they kept on loosing town after town and STILL refused surrender, the GA maybe had big problems to cope with that.

And for the loosing side: maybe it gave some bonus in PR, but certainly created big additional losses in towns.

Thus, maybe the big alliances now prepared some diplomatic ways to handle an enemy not going to surrender. And maybe everyone learned the cost of such a policy and thinks twice about  Wink

Trove war was ended, when most Consone alliances surrendered BEFORE the losses were too big to handle; and when quite some casual gamers quoted they'd quit if the stress level stays constantly at this high level (and some already did...).

It always takes one side to start a war, and both sides to end it without complete destruction. I hope we all learned a bit about politics here  Hug


Edited by Hora - 24 Jan 2015 at 16:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gragnog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2015 at 16:53
Originally posted by auel auel wrote:

I am sure we will all want to applaud Gragnog for his, as always, positive and insightful contribution to this interesting debate. Clap

Josiah


Dead I rest my case on the bias aspect. Now read the highlighted text.


Edited by Gragnog - 24 Jan 2015 at 17:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epidemic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2015 at 18:15
Originally posted by Mona Lisa Mona Lisa wrote:

If you wish to consider it ruthless, so be it. 



Thank you for at least being honest. Yes, you were quite brutal for Illy, if this were Tribal Wars i'd say 'good job', but since this type of warfare has never been a part of Illy it became sickening just how brutal the 'peaceful' crowfed and allies became capable of. I for one would not be proud of that.

Originally posted by Hora Hora wrote:


Thus, maybe the big alliances now prepared some diplomatic ways to handle an enemy not going to surrender. And maybe everyone learned the cost of such a policy and thinks twice about



Players were being sieged from the game right from the get go, it was not some last ditch effort to 'work for peace' against players who refused to listen to peaceful talks, it was a systematic purge of all enemies with a total disregard for how wars were fought in the past and a complete lack of foresight towards the future. It was carnage for the sake of entertainment, pure and simple. Don't try to rewrite history.


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