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The Great War

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Captain Kindly View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Kindly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 18:03
Originally posted by GM Rikoo GM Rikoo wrote:

How about I throw this out there?

Each alliance (or something like that) sends a leader or rep to join me on a livestream to discuss this war, but also war in general. 

It would make for a great listen.

Yes, I am serious. I wanted to cover more details about fighting anyway... why not cover a war?

I am aware of the sensitivity of some of the information, so we could have agreements about that first.

Let me know in an IGM or PM here. Or, just express your interest on this thread (just a quick message, don't wanna clog it up.)


GM Rikoo


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shûl-nak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 18:14
Roast 'em, Rikoo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 20:06
Originally posted by Artahm Artahm wrote:

If I understood Angrim correctly eCrow (and per analogiam mCrow) were not taking part in the initial planning. You are giving here lots of reasons for which they actually could have joined the other side...
i can no more speak for mCrow than illuminate the perceptions of the the bloc quebecois, but i can confirm that eCrow was apprised of the mounting tensions periodically until uCrow declared, after which it was clear we would not participate and lines of communication were severed one by one by the belligerent alliances along with the corresponding confed agreements. when war was first proposed, i was asked to pledge support and outlined the conditions under which i could commit eCrow to such a conflict. those conditions were not met, so eCrow never prepared for war.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Artahm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 20:34
Originally posted by Angrim Angrim wrote:

Originally posted by Artahm Artahm wrote:

If I understood Angrim correctly eCrow (and per analogiam mCrow) were not taking part in the initial planning. You are giving here lots of reasons for which they actually could have joined the other side...
i can no more speak for mCrow than illuminate the perceptions of the the bloc quebecois, but i can confirm that eCrow was apprised of the mounting tensions periodically until uCrow declared, after which it was clear we would not participate and lines of communication were severed one by one by the belligerent alliances along with the corresponding confed agreements. when war was first proposed, i was asked to pledge support and outlined the conditions under which i could commit eCrow to such a conflict. those conditions were not met, so eCrow never prepared for war.

Could you disclose what those conditions were? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 21:59
In response to the question about what the "dominant" confederation is on the server, and speaking as the leader of absolutely no one but instead as someone who has her own point of view:

I think one of the good things that came out of the last war is that there is NOT a dominant confederation on the server.  The alliances that came together to fight what can be seen as the previous dominant confederation did so for their own reasons.  Our interests ran together for a time.  In some cases they still run together.

However, I don't think any of those alliances wishes to dominate the server.  Most just want to be strong enough to be left alone.  The server seems to be fine without anyone dominating it.

Will another alliance or group of alliances eventually rise up and become dominant?  Maybe, but not necessarily.

With regard to confederation agreements between Crow alliances and between Crow alliances and non-Crow alliances:  Many Crow alliances have always maintained confederation agreements with non-Crow alliances.  In all cases these alliances are not seen as pledging the support of any OTHER Crow alliances to support that confederated alliance.  This was the occasion of some debate and discussion a couple of years ago among Crow leadership.

There is a very interesting post somewhere on the forum on the history of the Crow alliances.  I think it would make interesting reading.  I'll try to dig up a link.

One thing that I perceive to be true about the Crow Fed, although I was not here for its entire history, is that it was never intended to function as a power bloc.  It is a group of alliances that share, to one degree or another, common values and perspective on the game.  I largely agree with Angrim's post elsewhere about what those values are, although Angrim and I, and Crows in general, have disagreed in the past about how those values should be implemented.  It's an ongoing dialogue.
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Rill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 22:09
Here's the link to Albatross's excellent "map" of Crow history

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nokigon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 22:16
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

I think one of the good things that came out of the last war is that there is NOT a dominant confederation on the server.  The alliances that came together to fight what can be seen as the previous dominant confederation did so for their own reasons.  Our interests ran together for a time.  In some cases they still run together.

Originally posted by Tamaeon Tamaeon wrote:

Originally posted by GM Rikoo GM Rikoo wrote:

If the alliances in this thread want to share something that was alliance-wide and shared with others, like a Terms of Surrender, go for it. I'm like anyone else and enjoy these type of discussions. 
I don't think this disclosure is necessary, but I want issue a fair warning to any of the alliances involved in the war. Sharing the Terms of Surrender in private or disclosing them to the larger public is a direct violation of multilateral agreements and may lead to repercussions. Unless of course, the alliances involved agree to the disclosure of terms.

I've said before that I personally don't object to disclosure, though I cannot speak for anyone but myself. In fact my blessing no longer matters, as the alliance which I led during the war no longer exists. However, I still have access to the leaders of the GA alliances and would be happy to lobby for their approval, provided the Coalition agrees to the release of terms from previous wars. 

I would much prefer the terms can be disclosed in a new thread.


If no dominant confederation exists, then exactly who implements the repercussions referenced by Tamaeon?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tamaeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 22:29
Originally posted by Nokigon Nokigon wrote:

Originally posted by Tamaeon Tamaeon wrote:

Originally posted by GM Rikoo GM Rikoo wrote:

If the alliances in this thread want to share something that was alliance-wide and shared with others, like a Terms of Surrender, go for it. I'm like anyone else and enjoy these type of discussions. 
I don't think this disclosure is necessary, but I want issue a fair warning to any of the alliances involved in the war. Sharing the Terms of Surrender in private or disclosing them to the larger public is a direct violation of multilateral agreements and may lead to repercussions. Unless of course, the alliances involved agree to the disclosure of terms.

I've said before that I personally don't object to disclosure, though I cannot speak for anyone but myself. In fact my blessing no longer matters, as the alliance which I led during the war no longer exists.
If no dominant confederation exists, then exactly who implements the repercussions referenced by Tamaeon?
Nokigon, I think you already gave the best answer to that in one of your earlier posts. 

Originally posted by Nokigon Nokigon wrote:

I'm very much in favour of revealing the terms of DBs surrender. If dittobite and the other leaders of the GA are in favour, I will post them here. However- I have agreed non disclosure so I will need specific agreement to do so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epidemic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 22:42
Originally posted by Mona Lisa Mona Lisa wrote:

.. It should be noted,  I left Illy during the war (primarily due to real life pressures, I was involved in a large US litigation that took more hours than were in the day) but long after the outcome was certain, and have been gone from any Crow leadership position for far more than 6+ months, my views are mine alone and do not represent those of current or other past management  ; )


Am I correct in assuming your other account is Le Roux? If so, both your accounts were used to siege/raze the majority of your opponents in the northeast of Illyriad. You were probably the most destructive crow player during the war, besides the player who had a personal grievance with RES and mercilessly sieged/razed as many cities as he could. Did you know about this? Did you partake? What are your feelings about this and what is your reasoning behind the carnage?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nokigon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2015 at 23:04
Tamaeon- I know. I was simply challenging Rills assertion that there is no dominant illy confederation, something which I personally believe to be erroneous. I have never been any doubt as to who holds the balance of power in post-war Illy.

Edited by Nokigon - 23 Jan 2015 at 23:07
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