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The Great War
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Artahm View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Mona Lisa Mona Lisa wrote:

Certain powerblocs were beginning to take shape and that War with H?, unthinkable in the past, was not out of the question. . .  a host of reasons, shifting allegiances and past histories had conspired to alter the status quo (. . .)

Sooner or later something was bound to give, nearly any altercation on any side could trigger Armageddon.  The metagame reached a fevered pitch, unlikely alliances were forged, formerly tense or outright hostile past dealings were laid to rest in the interest of a common goal, and the Grand Alliance was formed.  It is not proper for me to go into details, but it was a truly herculean feat.  I was aware of a great deal, but no doubt much occurred that I can only guess at . . .

There was little surprise when a relatively minor altercation (shades of the Trove War) blew up out of proportion into the biggest war in Illy’s history, it was inevitable at that point. The only question was where the fence sitters would lean…

Mona Lisa

Aka “Banshee of the North”

First of all thank you for one of the most informative posts in this topic. If I might ask you to elaborate a little bit on a few points though I would really appriciate it.

The part of Your post Im quoting seems to indicate that Epidemic was correct in saying that the GA (or parts of it) were prepareing for the war for half a year. Can you confirm or deny that? Also which alliances were in the initiating group?  

What it further implies is that most of the reasons for the war were only smoke screens at that time neither BANE nor CK were at war and if I understand correctly there was nothing to suggest that NC were some crazed warmongers threatning the whole server. 

If the aformentioned is true it bares for me a question of what the real reasons for the war were? Was it a quest for domination? Did the vets get bored (as some seem to suggest)? I don't belive in personal grudges driving such major events, but have they played any role in it? Or have there been any other reasons?

Those are all intereting aspects, but what is the most confusing for me is the Crow Confederation itself. If I understood Angrim correctly eCrow (and per analogiam mCrow) were not taking part in the initial planning. You are giving here lots of reasons for which they actually could have joined the other side - am I correct to assume that this is why you did not include them in the initial planning? Were they considered fence sitters? Furthermore I can't help to notice that the Crow Confederation is not confederated with itself (mCrow and eCrow with nCrow and vCrow), yet nCrow and vCrow are confederated with many non-crow alliances. What's that about? Does the crow confederation exist or is it only names by now? Or is there a confederation of nCrow, vCrow, VICX and EE that is the really dominant on the server? If so, then is this the case just now or has it been the case since before the war? 

There are many more questions that could be asked in regard to all this, but Id like to start with those :)
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Only thing I can answer is some stuff about the confeds...

Some time back Crows had been one block with many mutual confeds, as can be seen in this (some years old) forum post:
http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/and-now-the-confederations_topic4465_page2.html

nCrow still exists,
EE and VICX were in or near Consone,
and vCrow is a merge of Crow and Valar (former Consone alliance).

eCrow formed after that forum post

And I guess the existing confederation bondings formed directly before the war.

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Originally posted by Hora Hora wrote:


nCrow still exists,
EE and VICX were in or near Consone,
and vCrow is a merge of Crow and Valar (former Consone alliance).


Is there a list of the alliances that made up Consone?
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Hora View Drop Down
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Here is Jasche's foundation topic in the forums:

http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/consone_topic3746.html

Member alliances are as follows:

Absaroke
Dwarven Druids
Eagles Eyrie
Eagles First Flight
Fairy Road Authority
Knights Temperance
Knights Virtue
Invictus
Sages of Illyriad
Victrix
Worlds End

Victrix went out of Consone soon after, but stayed confed to most of the alliances and was important ally in the war.

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Originally posted by Artahm Artahm wrote:

...

The part of Your post Im quoting seems to indicate that Epidemic was correct in saying that the GA (or parts of it) were prepareing for the war for half a year. Can you confirm or deny that? Also which alliances were in the initiating group?  

What it further implies is that most of the reasons for the war were only smoke screens at that time neither BANE nor CK were at war and if I understand correctly there was nothing to suggest that NC were some crazed warmongers threatning the whole server. 

If the aformentioned is true it bares for me a question of what the real reasons for the war were? Was it a quest for domination? Did the vets get bored (as some seem to suggest)? I don't belive in personal grudges driving such major events, but have they played any role in it? Or have there been any other reasons?

Those are all intereting aspects, but what is the most confusing for me is the Crow Confederation itself. If I understood Angrim correctly eCrow (and per analogiam mCrow) were not taking part in the initial planning. You are giving here lots of reasons for which they actually could have joined the other side - am I correct to assume that this is why you did not include them in the initial planning? Were they considered fence sitters? Furthermore I can't help to notice that the Crow Confederation is not confederated with itself (mCrow and eCrow with nCrow and vCrow), yet nCrow and vCrow are confederated with many non-crow alliances. What's that about? Does the crow confederation exist or is it only names by now? Or is there a confederation of nCrow, vCrow, VICX and EE that is the really dominant on the server? If so, then is this the case just now or has it been the case since before the war? 

There are many more questions that could be asked in regard to all this, but Id like to start with those :)

#1 Actually i do not recall the exact date the war actually began, so the exact length of time I prepared for actual conflict I will leave for the number crunchers . . . you can trace my full-time return to Illy from when I shut down BLOC-Q and rejoined vCrow.  It should be kept in perspective however, I was indeed preparing for conflict, but the exact nature of that conflict i could only guess at.  My interpretation was that it was a general reading of the tea leaves by those who got me back in the game, that tensions were growing, and something could blow at any time.  Either a big war or a new tourney could be likely, my prep was along those lines.  I could fill one void in the Crow universe, and thus i went to work. Given how slowly large armies are built, the more lead time you have the better . . .

I also might add that it was not the first time I had prepared for potential conflict, as prior to Consone war we had been concerned about what could happen and had built in prep for those times as well . . . in that case , we  (Crowfed in general) remained neutral throughout the war and was able to devote our buildup to the tourney that went off mid war. . . 

It is not hard to take the pulse of Illy and sense when something is going to blow, the Consone war was not wholly surprising to those in the peanut gallery, the Great War was even easier to anticipate . . .

#2 There were many small fires burning pre-great war, any of which could have blown up. the trigger was random at best.  I can only speak from my perspective,  I do not think I would characterize NC or SB as crazed warmongers, more like crazed mischief makers looking to make the game interesting for their playstyle, they tended to enjoy conflict (again from my vantage point), it is safe to say that their tendencies were different from ours (for good or bad depending upon which side of the fence you are on). They certainly did cause friction, friction certainly made the war more likely, but NC was but just one of the trees  they certainly were not the whole forest . . .  I don't see any quests for domination, it always appeared more as a quest to not be dominated . . .

#3 Division and disagreement within Crowfed has never been unusual, contrary to popular view, it certainly is not, nor ever has been one homogenous bloc.  The differing views within the Crowfed were certrainly evident prior to the war, some wings were more aligned with each other than others. It should come as no surprise given the fact I had been in leadership positions in both Crow and nCrow at the same time, that nCrow and vCrow were reasonably close. Certainly some wings discussed things with each other  and others did not, or at least to a different degree.  its always best to treat each Crow wing as an independent entity, it is much easier to understand and predict their actions that way.  Certainly relations between some wings chilled during the war, time tends to smooth over past differences and I would expect smoother roads ahead.

.. It should be noted,  I left Illy during the war (primarily due to real life pressures, I was involved in a large US litigation that took more hours than were in the day) but long after the outcome was certain, and have been gone from any Crow leadership position for far more than 6+ months, my views are mine alone and do not represent those of current or other past management  ; )


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Thank you Hora.

The forum post was helpful too (apart from the multi-colored text).
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Originally posted by Mona Lisa Mona Lisa wrote:

Originally posted by Artahm Artahm wrote:

...

Those are all intereting aspects, but what is the most confusing for me is the Crow Confederation itself. If I understood Angrim correctly eCrow (and per analogiam mCrow) were not taking part in the initial planning. You are giving here lots of reasons for which they actually could have joined the other side - am I correct to assume that this is why you did not include them in the initial planning? Were they considered fence sitters? Furthermore I can't help to notice that the Crow Confederation is not confederated with itself (mCrow and eCrow with nCrow and vCrow), yet nCrow and vCrow are confederated with many non-crow alliances. What's that about? Does the crow confederation exist or is it only names by now? Or is there a confederation of nCrow, vCrow, VICX and EE that is the really dominant on the server? If so, then is this the case just now or has it been the case since before the war? 

#3 Division and disagreement within Crowfed has never been unusual, contrary to popular view, it certainly is not, nor ever has been one homogenous bloc.  The differing views within the Crowfed were certrainly evident prior to the war, some wings were more aligned with each other than others. It should come as no surprise given the fact I had been in leadership positions in both Crow and nCrow at the same time, that nCrow and vCrow were reasonably close. Certainly some wings discussed things with each other  and others did not, or at least to a different degree.  its always best to treat each Crow wing as an independent entity, it is much easier to understand and predict their actions that way.  Certainly relations between some wings chilled during the war, time tends to smooth over past differences and I would expect smoother roads ahead.


First let me thank you for the explenation and confirmation on the two first aspects I have asked about. I understand that it's hard to precisely say how long the preperation was and it doesnt really matter was it 6 or 5 or 4 months. Timeline of spring to autumn is more then enough  for me :)

You didn't though quite approach my third point really. You have skimmed across the surface, but the real juicy part underneeth was left without an answer. May I presume Ive met a fellow lawyer? :)

The basic question I am reffering to is that: what was the real dominating confederation on the server then (and is now I presume)? Is it all alliances with Crow in it's name or is it  nCrow, vCrow, VICX and EE? From what I could have find on the forums neither eCrow nor mCrow had ever fought a war alongside nCrow or vCrow (yes, I know mergers, uCrow etc., I mean the major dynamics more then actual labels). From what I further understand during the two most reacent major wars it was actually quite close that they would fight eachother. Where do the real alliegances lie?
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How about I throw this out there?

Each alliance (or something like that) sends a leader or rep to join me on a livestream to discuss this war, but also war in general. 

It would make for a great listen.

Yes, I am serious. I wanted to cover more details about fighting anyway... why not cover a war?

I am aware of the sensitivity of some of the information, so we could have agreements about that first.

Let me know in an IGM or PM here. Or, just express your interest on this thread (just a quick message, don't wanna clog it up.)


GM Rikoo


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Originally posted by GM Rikoo GM Rikoo wrote:

How about I throw this out there?

Each alliance (or something like that) sends a leader or rep to join me on a livestream to discuss this war, but also war in general. 

It would make for a great listen.

Yes, I am serious. I wanted to cover more details about fighting anyway... why not cover a war?

I am aware of the sensitivity of some of the information, so we could have agreements about that first.

Let me know in an IGM or PM here. Or, just express your interest on this thread (just a quick message, don't wanna clog it up.)

GM Rikoo
Mr. Rikoo... that's a fantastic idea, count me in!

Any chance you could put together some data from the days of the war, and also compile a list of questions?
"How happy is the blameless vestal's lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each prayer accepted, and each wish resigned."
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Originally posted by Tamaeon Tamaeon wrote:

Mr. Rikoo... that's a fantastic idea, count me in!

Any chance you could put together some data from the days of the war, and also compile a list of questions?

Indeed, an intriguing idea, and reassuring to see GM's taking this much interest once again.  I wholeheartedly support the idea, but from afar :

" .. It should be noted,  ...  and have been gone from any Crow leadership position for far more than 6+ months, my views are mine alone and do not represent those of current or other past management  ; ) "

If scheduling permitted, I'd surely tune in and listen and send some comments if possible...  but in absolutely an unofficial and behind the scenes fashion . . .  I am but an insignificant waif  . . .  
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