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Topic ClosedSo who's winning and is it really Illy armageddon?

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Darmon View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 07:32
Originally posted by Aurordan Aurordan wrote:

Actually, Darkstar is in.

I thought only The Colony had declared war?  And even then, that it was only on one Consone alliance?  I figured TCol was just pursuing their own agenda, since they only declared on Worlds End (same as RES and Curse).  I wish someone would tell me why everyone seems to hate WE.

Though, if anyone would like to correct me, please do.  It's been a while since much news has surfaced about the war (though I'd sort of prefer it if we didn't grow another 60-some page mega thread in here).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 08:17
Who is winning the war?

Since BSH is neutral my only source of information are Elgea stats and trade activity. From outside perspective it looks something like that: Trade activity is slowly slowing down and prices are returning to pre-tourney pre-war state. The impact of the tourney on trade was far greater than war, so I'm guessing that casualty rate in the war is also much lower than in tourney. Some semi-large battles are happening all the time, but from graph of all moving attacking and defending armies I can conclude that commutative casualties are also way lower than in the tourney. Since 33% of the server is involved in the war I thought this would be higher. 

Well obviously "blietzkrieg" didn't happen. Partly because of new siege rules that makes fast razing (less than a day) very hard next to impossible and training time disadvantage of defensive units against offensive ones. At the beginning some Absa towns were razed, but that actually makes less than 1% of Consone population. From strategic point of view this is negligible. Psychological impact might be higher. I think that the war has reached kind of a stalemate where neither side is launching numerous well defended sieges and other side is able to brake those sieges. 

Projection:
H? & Co had advantage at the beginning of the war with larger army sizes. Initial army size is less important each day that the war continues, so the final winner will be determined by the army production rate. Who has higher army production rate is hard to determine, but if I had to guess I would say Consone, simply because of more towns. Town size is really not a big factor in production rates. How many inactives there are in each camp is hard to determines, but I would guess about the same. I've saw no simultaneous 100 town sieges so far from any side which would in my opinion if successful be decisive strategical move. So I conclude that strategy from both camps is about the same- limited sieges to isolated targets. How well this tactic is implemented, well from the number of razed towns I would say it is not very effective. Both camps have more population than in the beginning of the war, so raze rate is very low indeed. 

My betting odds today would be 60:40 in favour of H? + others, but if war continues without any large scale siege operations for another week, I would say around 50:50. Of course this prognosis would be different if anyone else joined this war, especially Crows.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 09:26
Originally posted by Darmon Darmon wrote:

I thought only The Colony had declared war?  And even then, that it was only on one Consone alliance?  I figured TCol was just pursuing their own agenda, since they only declared on Worlds End (same as RES and Curse).
JFTR, it's similar for ~N~ and ~NA~, so far they are "only" at war with ABSA, ROADS, and WE.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 09:39
Originally posted by dunnoob dunnoob wrote:

Originally posted by Darmon Darmon wrote:

I thought only The Colony had declared war?  And even then, that it was only on one Consone alliance? I figured TCol was just pursuing their own agenda, since they only declared on Worlds End (same as RES and Curse).
JFTR, it's similar for ~N~ and ~NA~, so far they are "only" at war with ABSA, ROADS, and WE.

Yeah, I thought about asking if Night Confed is what he meant, but they're also only just sorta in the war.  More like, they take issue with those 3 particular alliances, and the rest just happen to be confederates.

Question still stands about WE, though I guess it would also be nice to know why Absa and Roads are tied for a close second on the hate-o-meter.

I guess that might get into what this war is really about, since I think most people agree that it's not Trove.  And no one has been very forthcoming about that.


Edited by Darmon - 16 Nov 2012 at 09:40
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 11:01
OK my opinion on the war is as follows;

Harmless have the numbers and the troops strength but have no target.
No target because for an alliance to effectively assault another alliance you need to take out there leaders, and because consone has "no Leader"  Harmless has no target. This is why they are only attacking isolated towns and players 

consone also have the number but they cant co-ordinate there attack, so no head way has been made.
Right now it a stalemate as mentioned by bonaparta and this is because harmless has no target and consone cant act as one(no offense to anyone)

as for effecting other people if you are not involved in the war there has really been no effect on you. 

now for the, "is this armageddon"? well i don't think so it all seems like a whole lot of barking and no biting 
and no harmless only slapped consone they never bit them! Wink  
this is my opinion 

looking forward to hear what the rest of illy thinks


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 11:11
Originally posted by Darmon Darmon wrote:

Question still stands about WE 
Parts of it are personal, e.g., WES and *SKR* in Elijal presumably wouldn't like to get into a war on different sides, with lots of crows around us waiting for razed 7-food squares. Tongue

There's another personal reason why WES at war with *SKR* would be odd; besides both alliances are rather small (#70 and #71 on page 4), and don't matter.  If the wars reach a point where other factors are more important, well,  Censored

Originally posted by Darmon Darmon wrote:

 that might get into what this war is really about 
It's the fight against the greater good as defined by Consone, IMO a WWI scenario.  Crows might join Consone later, for a rôle as WWI US.

Updated to fix the censored icon without annotation.


Edited by dunnoob - 16 Nov 2012 at 11:15
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 12:51
its hard to fight a war when u are an attack dog and u have been muzzled....but i am learning alot and the game mechanics are excellent....oh by the way there is a vast difference between peace time economy and war time economy....also the war hasnt been going so long yet....kindof reminds me of the pacific war during war world 2, island hopping, lots of logistics and planning....excellent war game
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 13:11
You mean War in the Pacific? That was a great strategy game :)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 13:43
Originally posted by dunnoob dunnoob wrote:

IMO the real war has not yet started, the first 25:3 razes might not mean much.  VIC should "soon" (early December) regain its pre-tournament strength.  A graph showing the daily growth by players / pop / cities / land of greater good vs. harmless farmers could be interesting, the side growing faster is winning.

The real war did started and majority of units are already dead...
I think to regain pre-tournament strength both sides would need at least 6 months.
There are many towns that lost 25k T2 cavalry or 30k T2 ranged units.

I have war related combat reports from almost 1000 fights (962) and there where much more. Not everyone from Consone did send them to me and also because of many partial combat reports we received. So to have full war casualties both sides would need to provide all their combat reports.

But from those I have collected I can tell that more than 5 million units together where already killed and on XP casualties it looks like this:
Consone XP casualties: 6 828 108
H? & Co. XP casualties: 7 836 694

Of course I have that detailed for every involved alliance, player or town but I am not going to post those tables here.
Just this summary table from one side:

And my guess is I have around 2/3 of data so this might be 66%

Concerning towns I wanted to make some difference comparison with current state against state before war but I found only xml datafile from 22nd September and there are bigger effects than war on number of towns.

Results for Consone I got are like this
New towns: 371
Lost towns: 296
Joined towns: 251
Left towns: 592
Relocated towns: 85

So 22nd September there where 296 towns part of Consone which are no more existing in Illyriad, mostly from abandoned accounts and in that number are also those razed in war. A lot of towns that are "left" where from ~FF~ alliance which was part of Consone but now is empty (I don't have any details on that).

Btw I am looking for file datafile_towns.xml from 12th October or around that date. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some interesting units killed in this war include also
Praetorian Guardsmen : 692
Elite Praetorian Guardsmen : 289
Scrawny Wolves : 29
Pure Fire Elementals : 3
Pure Water Elementals : 2
Pure Earth Elementals : 2

and more then 1100 siege units killed  



Edited by Mogul - 16 Nov 2012 at 14:46
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dunnoob View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 15:25
Originally posted by Mogul Mogul wrote:

Consone XP casualties: 6 828 108
H? & Co. XP casualties: 7 836 694
Great to get some facts beyond 25:3, I don't look into the recent battles section of the Herald often enough.  From my own build queue I guessed that VIC should "soon" regain what they lost early in the tournament before the war, I have at best vague ideas what happened later, some epic battles listed in the Herald when I read it.
Originally posted by Mogul Mogul wrote:

Results for Consone I got are like this
New towns: 371
Lost towns: 296
Joined towns: 251
Left towns: 592
Relocated towns: 85
Is that 592+296-371-251=266 towns lost?
Originally posted by Mogul Mogul wrote:

Btw I am looking for file datafile_towns.xml from 12th October or around that date. :-)
Pass, either my connection is too lousy to download 15MB without compelling reasons, or I'm conserving bytes left until it's throttled (monthly) again after 5GB.  I could offer a 2012-07-08 towns file. Tongue 

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