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glorfindel 
Wordsmith
Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 129 |
 Posted: 27 Jul 2012 at 16:34 |
Like it or not, Aesir, but the reason behind going to war means something, both in real life and in this game. And for all of your efforts, you have not managed to get the consensus of Elgea to buy into your "casus belli." (And I hate to break it to you, but telling everything that they should back off and it's none of their business is never going to work.) Some people here have said that you have no right to go to war because you dislike EF or resent the ToS. I for one am not one of those people; I agree with Kumomoto, HonoredMule's past comments, and H?'s overall sense that fighting over those issues is fine. I even think that there need not be a blanket rule for small players being attacked.
I just don't believe that the "unfair ToS" is really why you attacked TLR in the first place. I firmly believe that Thordor accepted those terms knowing full well that his cohorts would help him exact revenge, and that's what this is about; it was merely the end of "act 1" in this war.
Now, your altruistic explanation for waging war with TLR is damage control. You are in total damage control mode.
You complain that the other alliances who are aiding TLR are interfering with a
mano e mano war between Aesir and TLR on account of many in Elgea getting into business that they have no stake in. Well, what stake did Aesir have in the ToS of the TRO/TLR war? You had no stake in it. You started this war, and you did so by violating the same principles that you are now trying to discredit TLR's alliance with.
You claim that you're trying to "save the game" by protecting small alliances like TRO from losing wars and having to pay tribute with prestige. Did you ever think that the coalition that marches against you is trying to "save the game" from the likes of you, protecting players and alliances from being attacked by larger alliances in retribution for winning wars?
Aesir, I urge you and your cohorts to
end this war. You tried and failed to embarrass EF and TLR, and if you really want to diminish his influence in Elgea, then you should stop fighting and losing to him. Do you realize that this war is over already? The question is, how far are you going to take it?
I have no great love of Eternal Fire -- I recognize that he is a controversial figure in Elgea
at best. But the game has to face the fact that he is
formidable. He was attacked by TRO and humiliated them. Now, he has been attacked by a much larger alliance and has outfoxed them as well, mostly through diplomatic wrangling. You make not like him, but he's here to stay. Might as well call it a day and live to fight another day.
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SugarFree
Forum Warrior
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 350 |
Posted: 27 Jul 2012 at 17:00 |
haha really really good, glorfindel. you hit the nail spot on and hammered it in all the way with one hit.
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Gilthoniel
Forum Warrior
Joined: 11 Oct 2011
Location: Cuiviénen
Status: Offline
Points: 211 |
Posted: 27 Jul 2012 at 17:06 |
Everybody wants to give their two cents and /or wave thier woodens swords in the forum. It would be sensible for GD and BV to get together. Call a ceasefire and return all units to their bases and work out a pact. Like it or not Aesir may have more in common with TLR than they have with other alliances.
Outsiders have been posting on this thread about the need for machismo which is rubbish; or they claim that a peace settlement between TLR/TRO was unjust and a cause for war- when:
- the poster has got nothing do with either party;
- the thing they complain about was never implemented anyway;
I as far I can see there has been a lot of personal abuse hurled about in this forum which even the GM's have let continue.
Neither side are the villians here. If there have been any villains in this thread , to my eyes, it is not the people from TLR or Aesir but those who keep trying to stoke up the war for either there own amusement or their own advantages.
Common lets just have some plain old common sense. Call off the sieges,raids or whatever and let GD and BV work something out because it feels like we ar getting past the point of no return here.
Edited by Gilthoniel - 27 Jul 2012 at 17:08
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Ander
Postmaster General
Joined: 24 Apr 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1269 |
Posted: 27 Jul 2012 at 17:46 |
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Robber barons masquerading as white knights - ever so common sight in Illy. Always eager to teach justice and code of conduct to players smaller than them.
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geofrey
Postmaster General
Joined: 31 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1013 |
Posted: 27 Jul 2012 at 18:02 |
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sandbox... now lets go dig!
Edited by geofrey - 27 Jul 2012 at 18:02
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BellusRex
Wordsmith
Joined: 09 Jul 2011
Location: Mountains
Status: Offline
Points: 156 |
Posted: 27 Jul 2012 at 19:39 |
It's going to be very interesting to see the reactions when the full ramifications of the update are understood. I'd be very surprised if the amount of military action doesn't become much more pronounced. You already see in GC statements about parking troops around mines and such. Does this sound like it's going to issue in a golden age of peace?
And on the whole war thing, I understand how everyone always wants information on the why's and wherefore's when ever a war happens, or even any sort of attack that gets publicized. We're all part of a group of people playing the same game, and wanting to know whats up in that game world is only natural.
With that in mind, all of the continual forum posts telling other players and alliances how to play get old. The same old things said in countless threads pages and pages far removed from where we are now.
Every single one of us has the right to our opinions of how things should be done, or how to play the game. Play it exactly as you like, and take what comes from what you do. Alliances act in the way they see best suits their own interests and those of their members, and I don't think any alliance
owes an explanation of their actions to anyone but those alliances they have diplomatic ties to. Nor does any player owe anyone here an explanation of their actions. Wanting one and being entitled to it are two different things.
I, like all of you, have my biases in who I like, support, or dislike in our world. I personally don't care for certain parties based on how they play, but they have every right to play that way. If you dislike something, oppose it in game, or yes, even berate it in the forum because you don't like it or agree, but realize no one owes or has any duty to respond, read, or even care what is said about what they do. Any action that is allowed by the rules is a valid choice.
Let me end the text tsunami by saying again that even though I have a set of ideals that guide my own behavior in the game, I don't expect everyone to agree or play the same way. Truthfully, that would be boring.
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"War is the father of all things..."
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Salararius
Postmaster
Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 519 |
Posted: 27 Jul 2012 at 20:07 |
 BellusRex wrote:
Every single one of us has the right to our opinions of how things should be done, or how to play the game. |
Having a right and holding a right are two separate things. By the terms of the game, there is no such right. Wars are fought on many levels and I feel what is said here (and privately) is more important than what is done in the "game".
Put another way, how you present and defend those "opinions" (we all have a right to) is generally as important to the war as moving armies around.
Telling people they shouldn't post their private opinions here is like asking them to fight with one hand behind their back. If you don't want to read people's private opinions, then you probably shouldn't read them. For those interested, read on. It's all part of the game. The only sad part is if players blur the line between games and real life. Everything else is just for fun.
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abstractdream
Postmaster General
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Location: Oarnamly
Status: Offline
Points: 1857 |
Posted: 27 Jul 2012 at 21:50 |
Salararius wrote:
BellusRex wrote:
Every single one of us has the right to our opinions of how things should be done, or how to play the game. |
Having a right and holding a right are two separate things. By the terms of the game, there is no such right. Wars are fought on many levels and I feel what is said here (and privately) is more important than what is done in the "game".
Put another way, how you present and defend those "opinions" (we all have a right to) is generally as important to the war as moving armies around.
Telling people they shouldn't post their private opinions here is like asking them to fight with one hand behind their back. If you don't want to read people's private opinions, then you probably shouldn't read them. For those interested, read on. It's all part of the game. The only sad part is if players blur the line between games and real life. Everything else is just for fun.
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Thank You.
These discussions and in-game communications options are the two paths by which things other than simple city building get done. Those that have no interest in the so called meta-game (personally I think uber-game is a better descriptor) who still wish to log in and build, harvest, trade, etc. can do so and easily stay clear of friction and confrontation. There are large areas of Elgea that are under the protective wing of confederations and extremely large alliances.
Those who do not care for that sort of thing can inhabit other large (I would argue larger actually) areas of Elgea where conflict is generally allowed or even (not unheard of) encouraged by third parties. The discussions between them are the very substance of the uber-game. Take that away, Illyriad is Sim-City.
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Bonfyr Verboo
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BellusRex
Wordsmith
Joined: 09 Jul 2011
Location: Mountains
Status: Offline
Points: 156 |
Posted: 28 Jul 2012 at 00:13 |
Why not quote this part as well?
"
If you dislike something, oppose it in game, or yes, even berate it in the forum because you don't like it or agree, but realize no one owes or has any duty to respond, read, or even care what is said about what they do"
Both replies have no bearing on what I said. Meta game is fine.What I commented on is people with no direct involvement or interest who demand information from the parties involved and act as if it is owed them, or who take a position on how someone else plays the game and then try to tell them how to play it. I do believe by my post you can make no assumption on who I think is right or wrong, because that is irrelevant. Be aggressive, don't be aggressive, the game can handle both.
To say having and holding a right are two different things really makes no sense, If I have something, by definition I hold it. To say by terms of the game there is no right to opinion is ridiculous on it's face. If that were true, you couldn't have said what you did on a game forum, as you have no in game right to opinion. How does that make sense?
To make it very simple, my point was that these threads are generally filled up by comments from people with no involvement at all in the events they post about telling every one else how they should play. The discussions that are the "very substance" of the game are those between the people involved. By all means, post away your opinion on whats going on; we all have an opinion on things that happen around us. They are usually the same people who complain about not enough wars in Illy, then run to the forum when an alliance or player they don't like makes a military move.
It would be a nice change to see them actually send troops or other aid to who ever they support. Meta gaming does actually encompass doing something in game, other than just posting here.
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"War is the father of all things..."
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Mr Damage
Postmaster
Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 598 |
Posted: 28 Jul 2012 at 02:23 |
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BellusRex, wholeheartedly agree with your posts, nice work now lets move on.
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Æsir's Crusade vs. TLR
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