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SIN War Declaration Against SHARK

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Legoman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legoman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2015 at 21:03
Originally posted by abstractdream abstractdream wrote:

Originally posted by Legoman Legoman wrote:

Originally posted by Pellinell Pellinell wrote:

Sounds like Shark couldn't beat 3 tiny alliances without help and are now seeking help from another top 5 alliance to defeat yet another small alliance.

How embarrassing for their membership! Largest alliance in Illy and can't beat anyone in a heads up fight....not even those a fraction their size.



Pellinell you never cease to amaze me.  NC's specialty was beating anyone larger than them, and this is NCII.  And to my knowledge we did not ask for VIC's help, I could be wrong, but I haven't seen where anyone in SHARK knows why VIC declared.  We all can speculate and theorize, but until they say so we can't know for sure.  Maybe you should ask VIC.
You're right, it is speculation. Here's some facts: SIN is in TBL and have declared their intention to stop SHARK. SHARK are in Elgea and have declared their intention to go to TBL. VIC have declared nothing but war.

SHARK is also in BL and so is VIC. An apple is an apple no matter where it is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Pellinell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2015 at 21:17
I still have a billion gold on Sin winning, any takers ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DDL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2015 at 23:14
For those of you who think SHARK can't win a 1 on 1 with SIN, you're funny. Firstly, was it ever really a 1 on 1? Secondly, how do you declare war on someone AND THEN make stipulations? I'm positive only 1 side "agreed" to that. Lastly, you and I know that the timing of SINs declaration on SHARK was no coincidence. SHARK just finished a war. Even a blind person can see that SIN had prior arrangements with TVM / RE and T-SC. Those 3 alliances would do all the heavy lifting, weaken SHARK, and then SIN would swoop in and attempt to cut the head off the giant. Looks much more like a 4 on 1 to me.

Invictus DOES NOT agree with or recognize land claims.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2015 at 23:45
Originally posted by Legoman Legoman wrote:

Originally posted by Brandmeister Brandmeister wrote:

Originally posted by Legoman Legoman wrote:

Well Jax since you are in VIC and know their reason's for joining the war please share them.  Oh that's right you aren't so you have no idea why they did or anything to do with it.

Originally posted by Legoman Legoman wrote:

Since SIN is declaring on Elgean alliances with a presence in BL it makes sense that they would go after VIC eventually, so why shouldn't they declare on SIN when they choose to?

Since you just reprimanded someone else for speculating on VIC's reasons for joining the war, and you are actually in SHARK/VIC, shall we take your statement as their official justification for declaring war?

Because if you get to speculate and everyone else doesn't, that seems a little contradictory.

You are right it is contradictory, but at least I have a reason for speculating as the war does affect me and I am not just rabble rousing.   

I am not a spokesperson for any alliance in Illyriad.

Legoman, Hansa neighbors VIC and Shark so it is my concern post-war. If they Shark/Vic win we'll be removing the land claim since it's not worth the hassle dealing with superpower alliances who don't even recognize them. The terrain on Hansa's land claim isn't even that good though, so I don't see why military players would want to settle here anyways. And I'm just saying if vic sent players to shark rather than having their whole alliance get involved, it wouldn't look as bad to the illyriad community(as in terms of 2vs.1 rather than 1vs.1).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2015 at 23:53
Originally posted by DDL DDL wrote:

snip. you and I know that the timing of SINs declaration on SHARK was no coincidence. SHARK just finished a war. Even a blind person can see that SIN had prior arrangements with TVM / RE and T-SC. Those 3 alliances would do all the heavy lifting, weaken SHARK, and then SIN would swoop in and attempt to cut the head off the giant.


But we do not KNOW anything; we see what happened and we can make educated guesses - but we do not know what Sin, TVM, RE, T-SC or anyone else for that matter, was actually thinking.
 
If it ain't in writing, in black and white, it's just wishful thinking, muddy logic and conspiracy theories.

As far as I'm aware telepathy is pretty much a fiction.

If you are capable of reading the minds of other alliances' leadership possibly you should provide some proof of your assertions - whatever they may be - otherwise all you are spouting is made-up nonsense.


Edited by Arian - 09 Nov 2015 at 23:55
'Do you want ice with that?'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjc2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2015 at 00:36
Originally posted by DDL DDL wrote:

For those of you who think SHARK can't win a 1 on 1 with SIN, you're funny. Firstly, was it ever really a 1 on 1? Secondly, how do you declare war on someone AND THEN make stipulations? I'm positive only 1 side "agreed" to that. Lastly, you and I know that the timing of SINs declaration on SHARK was no coincidence. SHARK just finished a war. Even a blind person can see that SIN had prior arrangements with TVM / RE and T-SC. Those 3 alliances would do all the heavy lifting, weaken SHARK, and then SIN would swoop in and attempt to cut the head off the giant. Looks much more like a 4 on 1 to me.

Invictus DOES NOT agree with or recognize land claims.

well as an officer in T-SC, this is the first i am hearing about an arrangement between us and SIN with us reducing sharks troop count before SIN declared.  i know i have stated previously that i was a junior officer in T-SC but about the time of the declaration T-SC was going through a major officer revamp and i basically was appointed to speak for T-SC while we decided who was actually in charge(the reason i was appointed is because i took myself out of the running completely so for a few days there i was basically running T-SC while we were hashing out who would lead us in the future) In fact the decision for T-SC declaring was completely my call and i made it during that leadership change over due to the fact that our previous leadership had agreed to back any DSD alliance in BL that had made a land claim if the backing was requested.

now if TVM made an agreement with SIN idk but that really doesnt matter to me because we made an agreement with TVM to back them if they requested our help, which they did.  as for the surrender, that was TVMs call, they decided to ask for terms and called the ceasefire, since we were only in the war at their request we honored it and when shark offered us terms we could accept we ended the war.  in fact most of my members were not ready for the war to end, the only reason the terms were accepted was because 1. they were acceptable, 2. the officers of T-SC had RL issues going on and could not successfully run a warring alliance with those issues, 3.  the rest of the DSD and SIN both informed us they would not back us in a solo war with shark if the rest of the DSD south alliances signed the treaty. and 4.  we knew we were not capable of bringing the war to any shark enclaves, we could keep them out of our area for a time but we did not have the troop mix to place sieges by ourselves outside of SE BL(which shark exoed all of their cities out of this region within 2 weeks of us declaring war).  

apon the dissolution of T-SC and merger into STORM i sent feelers out to SIN to see if they would accept any of our members that still wanted to fight shark because i could see that the next war shark had was going to be with SIN.  i was informed of conditions to join that none of my members could meet in the forseeable future and i took that as a nice way of them telling me "f*** no."  but then again those conditions did highlight the major difference between T-SC and SIN in settling the SE BL, we were both military based alliances but had different city placement requirements due to the way we were both planning on handling wars.  so it could have been simply that and they were completely willing to take my members.

now as for the timing of SINs declaration, i had a conversation within 24 hours of T-SC declaring on shark with a major SIN figure were he complained that we beat SIN to the punch, so based on that convo i am pretty sure the only reason that DSD south went against shark first is because we declared first otherwise it may have been SIN vs Shark and if SIN left anything for DSD south(which honestly i doubt, even with VIC in the war now i still think SIN will win it because VIC has the same problems SHARK has with waging a war in TBL, simply because DSD south could not take advantage of those weaknesses doesnt mean SIN cant) then we would have taken them on.  in fact during the entire newlands war all my regular SIN contacts were constantly asking me to "end the war already so we can take a turn" which tells me they really did want a 1v1 match because if they just wanted to attack shark why wait for them to make peace with DSD south?  in fact most of shark leadership has already commented they were suprised it was DSD south that declared first and not SIN.  

and yes i did take advantage of the fact that shark was worried about SIN entering the war when i took the 2 SS mines from them.  i knew T-SC did not have the troops to defend both mines and still fulfill our troop garantes to TVM so i leaked the arrival times for our clearing forces to SIN on the one mine we were not planning on capturing ourselves and i timed the capture to coincide with a SIN/T-SC temp confed due to a terraform/exo on a planned city placement that was agreed to before the war.  simply to make shark think we were trying to drag SIN into the war even though i knew SIN would not join this war until after DSD south had come to terms with shark(i did ok this ploy with SIN leadership first and they were like "will it piss of shark?  then sure lets go for it").  i already had a discussion with Hal about this, he believes that is an unacceptable ploy in a war while i think anything that can get the job done works but that is between the 2 of us and i am pretty sure we can both see the others point of view whether we agree or not.

now to bring this back to the post i am quoting, no i dont think this was a planned op, i think shark has just pissed off too many TBL only players/alliances with their actions and the repercussions are all hitting them at the same time, honestly my question would be, "if SIN doesnt teach them a lesson then who is the next TBL powerbloc that will try?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Bobtron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2015 at 02:39
Below is my own opinion and mine only, it is not representative of alizes' views:

Why are you guys throwing a hissy fit over VIC declaring on SIN, and that it is "unfair" for a smaller alliance to have to 2v1? From what I have read on the Times and this thread, it seems to me that SIN has declared a War of Aggression, with no Casus Belli whatsoever. (although, to make their standpoint at little less controversial, they have conjured up some "challenge" bs) Shark has no obligation for completely abide by an aggressor's terms, and as defenders, they have every right to call on confeds. In addition, if such an aggressive alliance declares war on another alliance with no cb, nearby alliances would have every right to stop such aggressiveness. SIN asked for it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2015 at 04:39
TUF's justification for why they with LePue in their roster are getting involved is going to take some explaining to their members, never mind the rest of us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote madmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2015 at 06:48
ok i see this becoming one of the long forums post showing hate,
well i also noticed storm is being spoken of, 

so i wish to make few points clear,

1) storm is pure neutral,(this doesnt means we wont take part in war or something like that,it means we take no sides we see what is best for us and we proceed).

2)few people hate pile up and pelli is one of them, im sure most of you guys remember how pico got his 800k troops killed by sieging a small player(piled on him).

3)basically people thinks that storm was formed to fight with shark in elgea, while sin takes care of them in bl,i want to say this is not true.
storm was formed with one reason to make a pure neutral allaince.

4)i noticed people talking about whether shark asked help or not.from what i have hear and seen im pretty sure they asked for help.(this was even noticed in gc by many).

From my point of view,

An allaince has right to challenge a 1 on 1 with another
while the other can accept the challenge or ask their allies for help (thats what allies are for)

shark have asked help for some strategic reason which is not wrong,it is their choice to accept the challenge or not.

and in same manner allies can accept the request or say no,

i know few of the allies of shark said no ,respecting the 1 vs 1 war,

but invictus chose to ignore it and help shark(for which they got right as they are allies) and given them got some bad history with sin.

i dont know why people are fighting in forums for this and pulling other allaince and trying to escalate the war.

im sure that sin can handle both vic and shark.


so thats it, i would like to make the stance of storm clear, we are neutral.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jcx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2015 at 07:53
Originally posted by DDL DDL wrote:

For those of you who think SHARK can't win a 1 on 1 with SIN, you're funny. Firstly, was it ever really a 1 on 1? Secondly, how do you declare war on someone AND THEN make stipulations? I'm positive only 1 side "agreed" to that. Lastly, you and I know that the timing of SINs declaration on SHARK was no coincidence. SHARK just finished a war. Even a blind person can see that SIN had prior arrangements with TVM / RE and T-SC. Those 3 alliances would do all the heavy lifting, weaken SHARK, and then SIN would swoop in and attempt to cut the head off the giant. Looks much more like a 4 on 1 to me.

Invictus DOES NOT agree with or recognize land claims.

is this for a 2 years old kid? 

Because it seems like I am reading a bed time story...  
 
Disclaimer: The above is jcx|orcboy's personal opinion and is not the opinion or policy of Harmless? [H?] or of the little green men that have been following him all day.

jcx in H? | orcboy in H?
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