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dunnoob 
Postmaster
Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Location: Elijal
Status: Offline
Points: 800 |
 Posted: 20 Jul 2012 at 17:16 |
 Auraya wrote:
If you can still vote on the poll, you've simply not voted. |
Good idea, testing it again I could vote NO. Maybe it's a bug, and I've now voted twice...
Ob on topic: I'm no big fan of the medals, but some folks like it. Giving medals to folks outside of my own alliance is the only feature I like. But not for a lost war, any
P including the daily free
P is real money.
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geofrey
Postmaster General
Joined: 31 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1013 |
Posted: 20 Jul 2012 at 17:21 |
Bonaparta wrote:
Auraya please stop making fuss about nothing. First of all how other alliances negotiate for cease fire and peace is none of your concern and second you have no idea what was going on in negotiations, perhaps TRO proposed medals in the first place... |
It seems very likely that an alliance with a large alliance pool would offer a medal as compensation to end a war. Medals, after all, aren't something people just throw around like cattle.
Medals provide flexibility to the game. You can flex them however you want.
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GM Luna
New Poster
Community Manager
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Location: Illyriad
Status: Offline
Points: 2042 |
Posted: 20 Jul 2012 at 17:35 |
For the sake of clarity of discussion, in what ways would one player "force" another to buy a medal? With a threat of siege or attacks? And if so, how is that different than someone "forcing" another player to do anything else in game (name a city after something, move a city, sing a song in global chat)?
Basically, if someone attempted to "force" another player to do something they don't want to do, and there is no game mechanic that actually allows for them to force the action, the option is always there to say "no." Then if someone says "no, I won't do this thing you are trying to force me to do" then if players continue to attack one another (or whatever else the condition was) is that not a legitimate use of game mechanics? And then wouldn't the community, rather than the dev team, be able to determine what the norm would be as a response to this action. Much like how the community tends to disfavor a larger player attacking a new player. There's no game mechanic saying you shouldn't do this, but the community constructs and enforces what it considers to be the norm or the "right" way of acting.
Whether or not this is a very nice thing to do another player, is a matter of opinion in which the dev team would remain neutral. With the exception being that if one player could show that another was harassing them in a manner that was against the code of conduct.
This is an interesting discussion for sure and something for us all to think about. I do appreciate hearing from people their opinions on the matter. Certainly not a way in which I'd predicted the medals would be used, to say the least.
Luna
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GM Luna | Illyriad Community Manager | community@illyriad.co.uk
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Thordor
Greenhorn
Joined: 14 Jul 2011
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 44 |
Posted: 20 Jul 2012 at 17:45 |
Luna, is there a reason you can't trade Prestige? If there is I would assume it's because prestige is paid for with real money, it supports the game, and having the ability to 'bully' players out of their prestige will make people more reluctant to buy it.
This could be seen as the prelude to a bigger problem. The community frowns quite a bit but you would be surprised how many people wouldn't actually do anything. Everyone has an opinion but that's as far as it goes. The GM's are the rule makers of Illyriad and I think should make said rules in the players interests as new problems arise.
Imagine you've spent a year or so building up your own characters cities, and working on an alliance, now imagine all that work is being undone before your eyes, it's very demoralizing. I care for my own account, but care for the people in my alliance much more then that, and when the ToS came through I rushed through the 'acceptance' of them to stop my players being slammed.
This is just one incident, there will be more, you can count on it, and if you're expecting the community to step up and police the game for you, I'm afraid it wont happen, there are too many ingame things to worry about including political backlashes that the higher ups of the bigger alliances might not think are worth it.
If you want people to buy prestige, then you need some kind of 'official' safe guard in place.
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geofrey
Postmaster General
Joined: 31 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1013 |
Posted: 20 Jul 2012 at 17:49 |
Excellent points Luna.
If medals/prestige were attainable by sending 30,000 thieves, that would be something to complain about.
As is, it is a choice an alliance member with the appropriate authority has to make. And these choices can all be partially influenced by in-game actions and meta-game coercion, but the choice is still up to the user on what to do with their prestige.
I do think this is the equivalent of asking the devs implement players with population > 100,000 not be able to send attacks against players with <100,000.
These sort of decisions are community opinions. If the bulk of the community agrees on common practices, it is up to the community to encourage those practices. The Dev team is not responsible for representing and carrying out the communities opinions. They are the builders of the world. (Hopefully they will track their approval rating and build really cool things.)
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903 |
Posted: 20 Jul 2012 at 17:55 |
I would think that the dev team would very much have an interest in this issue. If medals are used in this way, one way the community could respond would be by seeing them as a mark of dishonor rather than honor; this would probably lead to people purchasing fewer medals than they would otherwise, which would limit their potential as a source of income.
I am not predicting that this will occur, I am simply pointing out that the developers might have a very real interest in protecting the idea of medals as something that are good and honorable rather than a mark of shame.
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Tordenkaffen
Postmaster
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 821 |
Posted: 20 Jul 2012 at 17:57 |
Luna - As an example - imagine the situation where 1 player - the leader of a loosing alliance - takes on responsability for those he lead - in a much stronger sense than simply the alliance structure - but in terms of friendship.
With that enters the ability for another alliance to force a "submission fee", from the defeated party, in order to spare his also defeated allies. The fee would be very compelling for the loser, if not to spare his own account, then out of a guilty conciousness to his friends who likewise loose their accounts.
Right now the event of it happening may seem implausible, but in 12-15 months+ this discussion will be long forgotten, and alliances will have actively searched out ways to use the medalsystem as a means of "creative extortion" simply because prestige IS such a desired commodity and the "transaction" is possible.
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geofrey
Postmaster General
Joined: 31 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1013 |
Posted: 20 Jul 2012 at 17:59 |
Thordor wrote:
Luna, is there a reason you can't trade Prestige? If there is I would assume it's because prestige is paid for with real money, it supports the game, and having the ability to 'bully' players out of their prestige will make people more reluctant to buy it.
This could be seen as the prelude to a bigger problem. The community frowns quite a bit but you would be surprised how many people wouldn't actually do anything. Everyone has an opinion but that's as far as it goes. The GM's are the rule makers of Illyriad and I think should make said rules in the players interests as new problems arise.
Imagine you've spent a year or so building up your own characters cities, and working on an alliance, now imagine all that work is being undone before your eyes, it's very demoralizing. I care for my own account, but care for the people in my alliance much more then that, and when the ToS came through I rushed through the 'acceptance' of them to stop my players being slammed.
This is just one incident, there will be more, you can count on it, and if you're expecting the community to step up and police the game for you, I'm afraid it wont happen, there are too many ingame things to worry about including political backlashes that the higher ups of the bigger alliances might not think are worth it.
If you want people to buy prestige, then you need some kind of 'official' safe guard in place.
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Thordor, I understand your blight, If you think you or your alliance were wronged and others would back you up, I strongly suggest you create a separate post on the Elgea forums saying why you did what you did, and what you wish the outcome could of been.
This is a sandbox. Threats of in-game action should be expected. I consider asking for a medal for peace a creative bargaining chip, just like i think offering a medal for agreeing to peace to be creative.
Medals certainly add a new layer to Illyriad, and I like the, even tho I don't have one yet
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Granlik
Forum Warrior
Joined: 12 Apr 2012
Location: London UK
Status: Offline
Points: 280 |
Posted: 20 Jul 2012 at 18:07 |
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Medals are here to stay and like most new things will become just another aspect of the game (reminder: this is a game, a very good game but just a game)
I expect to see someone selling medals via GC or the forums soon and they will become rather like the "Tattoos" that half the RL population now seem to have somewhere on their body.
In fact I saw a chap with his whole arm coloured a light green last week in Brixtom market UK.
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Quackers
Forum Warrior
Joined: 19 Nov 2011
Location: Jeff City
Status: Offline
Points: 435 |
Posted: 20 Jul 2012 at 18:16 |
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With the current game mechanics we do not need the developers to allow us to give medals outside the alliance. Taking away this feature will not harm the sales of medals, if anything, it will only deter them.
Before you could gift medals to people outside the alliance you would have to invite someone into said alliance and give the medal that way. Putting them under a rank that could/couldn't see AC chat. But even with taking away gifting prestige outside the alliance this feature can still be abused.
As Luna said the only way this can be moderated is by the people on Illyriad. We need to stand together to protect other players from abuse like this. Then if it starts happening enough hopefully the developers will finally step in.
Question we need to ask is; is it worth losing a member then someone gaining a forced medal?
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Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so you will not be dependent on anybody.
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Remove Gifting Medals Outside Alliance
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