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Hadus 
Postmaster
Joined: 28 Jun 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 545 |
 Posted: 26 Oct 2012 at 17:24 |
 Myzel wrote:
Hadus wrote:
I wish to challenge your belief that H? is to be admonished for lies and subversion. How can you admire and respect a plan to destroy a perceived rival using surprise and hidden motives, and then accuse them for the very tactics which they required to carry out their plan?
Simply put, manipulation of facts is part of war. This isn't a duel; there is no honor to be won if you end up face down in a ditch. If deceit and lies are one path to victory, does it make any sense o remove that option on moral grounds, especially when there is no guarantee your opponent won't do the same?
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You make a good point but it doesn't mean someone can't both admire and admonish H?'s game. Deception can be part of war and I could admire skillful use of it. I think RHY/H?'s feigned interest in peace talks on the condition that VIC would stop breaking sieges was a stroke of genius, really. But I think that it is still a game that can be played with integrity (which, in fact, is a good strategy because other players respect it). Much of H? game has been tainted by namecalling, ridiculing and hateful accusations (although I'm not saying they were the only ones to do it - players from the Consone side or neutral flamers have been doing it as well). I morally can't respect that. And when you think about it, much of the truth-twisting was done in such a half-assed way that hardly anyone actually ate it up. So even from a purely strategic standpoint, I wouldn't respect this part of their game because it wasn't skillful or subtle and only served to make themselves look bad.
All in all I'd say H?'s plan was interesting. Its execution had its moments, but was a little too obvious which made the falsehoods all the more blatant. Of course, the game isn't over yet. Maybe they'll have something up their sleeve.
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You bring up an excellent point. I suppose I narrowed my own view by speaking purely from a strategic standpoint. Ironically, their attempts to sway public opinion only hurt their own PR.
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Drejan
Forum Warrior
Joined: 30 Sep 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 234 |
Posted: 26 Oct 2012 at 18:36 |
"Release from Illyriad Ministry of Truth"
 ahahahahaha
"
Don't believe any denials, they are flat out lies."
Oh right, you are THE TRUTH.. DON'T TRUST ANYONE ... except Mr.Anonymous! Cospiracy!!!
"Sound familiar? Resemble any thing going on?"
Mhmm considering this has been written after the war... what should this prove?
"
. I've heard the plans and discussions myself.
...bla bla"
Try harder please ... the cospiracy story has holes everywhere...
We could have been in war for the EE-Dlord and Dlord-Druid issue on mines 1-2 months before all of that if H? was looking for a war as you said.
What was different?
- The alliances didn't look for external help (with EE we had 100k troops lost both sides but no external help eccept a few FF)
- Dimplomatic channels were open.
We could have easily declared war on EE for beeing attacked, Consone would have declared war on us, H? would have helped ecc ecc ecc.
Truth is that H? did not need to plan any "casus belli".
Edited by Drejan - 26 Oct 2012 at 18:42
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twilights
Postmaster
Joined: 21 May 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 915 |
Posted: 26 Oct 2012 at 18:44 |
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frankly i am totally amazed that people dont realize that this game encourages planting spies in other alliances, with the amount of accounts we allowed (2) and the ease of sitting accounts without any notice given to other players, its kind of hard to plot in ac and in game mail, lol, even right now there is probably someone in my other account sitting, and i am not even sure which account im writing this from.....but im blond
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Deranzin
Postmaster
Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 845 |
Posted: 26 Oct 2012 at 19:16 |
LionArse wrote:
I will not respond to any questions or attempts to draw me out. I do not seek dialog, but to merely offer information.
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This means you are
PREACHING and the acceptance of your words is just a matter of pre-existing belief and the level of personal gullibility.
Anyone can make a clone and pretend to be privy of secret information which he divulges for no personal gain other than a "love for truth" ... it is an old ploy, even older than the internet actually (there is even a person in our TV that claims that he is privy to information that "ONLY HIM and OTHER FOUR people in the whole europe know" and there are people - usually pentioners - that actually believe him
 ), and
I do not wish to comment anything else on a thread created by someone who loves TRUTH so much that he HIDES even his in game nickname.
Judging only from that small, yet all important fact, you are more likely from Mars than any "ministry" containing "truth" in it title ...
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hellion19
Forum Warrior
Joined: 01 Aug 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 310 |
Posted: 26 Oct 2012 at 22:16 |
Deranzin wrote:
LionArse wrote:
I will not respond to any questions or attempts to draw me out. I do not seek dialog, but to merely offer information.
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This means you are
PREACHING and the acceptance of your words is just a matter of pre-existing belief and the level of personal gullibility.
Anyone can make a clone and pretend to be privy of secret information which he divulges for no personal gain other than a "love for truth" ... it is an old ploy, even older than the internet actually (there is even a person in our TV that claims that he is privy to information that "ONLY HIM and OTHER FOUR people in the whole europe know" and there are people - usually pentioners - that actually believe him
), and
I do not wish to comment anything else on a thread created by someone who loves TRUTH so much that he HIDES even his in game nickname.
Judging only from that small, yet all important fact, you are more likely from Mars than any "ministry" containing "truth" in it title ...
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Perhaps the person that speaks with him is the voice of God?
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Brids17
Postmaster General
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1483 |
Posted: 26 Oct 2012 at 22:22 |
Drejan wrote:
What was different? |
The tournament. H? waited until the consone killed off their troops and then declared war. And this is evident in the distinct lack of effort on their part during the entire tournament. At least that much was planned. As far as the whole conspiracy theory typed out by some guy hiding behind a username that resembles LionHeartz, I don't really believe much of it. But I do believe this was planned before the tourney started.
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hellion19
Forum Warrior
Joined: 01 Aug 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 310 |
Posted: 26 Oct 2012 at 22:29 |
Brids17 wrote:
Drejan wrote:
What was different? |
The tournament. H? waited until the consone killed off their troops and then declared war. And this is evident in the distinct lack of effort on their part during the entire tournament. At least that much was planned. As far as the whole conspiracy theory typed out by some guy hiding behind a username that resembles LionHeartz, I don't really believe much of it. But I do believe this was planned before the tourney started.
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Except if you read the first 7 pages of the main thread it was pretty obvious that H? had very little involvement as to how things happened. Not until the 8th page that they interfered and its because VIC decided to join in and assist in the fight against RHY which was already fairly even with RHY vs SkB and ABSA. Once VIC involved itself so did H? on page 8. Unless H? also planned to push VIC in to help fight RHY which then thats going to feed all sorts of other conspiracies because they obviously have a great deal of power that no one knows about to control every other guilds actions as well.
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The_Dude
Postmaster General
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 2396 |
Posted: 27 Oct 2012 at 00:01 |
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Bonaparta
Postmaster
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Location: Milky Way
Status: Offline
Points: 541 |
Posted: 27 Oct 2012 at 00:44 |
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Mandarins31
Forum Warrior
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 418 |
Posted: 27 Oct 2012 at 00:53 |
hellion19 wrote:
Unless H? also planned to push VIC in to help fight RHY which then thats going to feed all sorts of other conspiracies because they obviously have a great deal of power that no one knows about to control every other guilds actions as well.
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If they got informed by RHY that Absa attacked a standing army of them, H? didnt need supernatural mental powers to involve VIC in the conflict. It would have been quite easy to ask RHY to start sieges against Absa; and if Consone mutual defense wasnt a fake agreement, they surely would invole the rest of Consone, counting VIC. Then, announcing secret confed bonds with RHY would put them in a "legal" position to start a war against Absa and VIC, the rest of Consone would logically follow.
No mind control stufs; this theory could be true as it's a short logical continuation of causes and consequences anyone with the apropriate knowledge would be able to plan.
So for me, H? involvment could easily have started by asking RHY to siege Absa. But not before as H? couldnt have planned Absa would help Skb if RHY was hostile with Skb, so they are not behind it.
H? started carefully on the tourney, to let other alliances kill each other and then enter in the tourney with almost full power (they used some units though), which is a classic and viable tactic. At the same time, maybe were they paranoiac about Consone members using the same strategy and letting H? lose troops first, which would put H? in disadvantage if Consone decided to start a war against them (but the facts shew the non-machiavelic plans of Consone, who played fully from the start of the tourney). If Consone alliances didnt play the tourney at all, it's obvious H? wouldn't either.
H? were waiting for the best occasion to start a conflict against Consone. All the best conditions have been luckily or partially luckily gathered and so they didnt hesitate to jump in.
Edited by Mandarins31 - 27 Oct 2012 at 00:55
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