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SunStorm View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2012 at 20:24
Calico Jack,

I cant help but feel (especially after your jab about others not listening to you, and you having to repeat yourself) that you are not listening as well.  I know that we all hear what we want to hear (I am not above this), but I am trying to make this as clear as I can.
Originally posted by Calico_Jack Calico_Jack wrote:

did you forget about GC and the existence of Alliances, which helps new players?
In my hypothetical situation, any player (especially the ones with larger population...because the bigger they are, the quicker they fall to siege) who:
  • (1) is away for four days
  • (2) has a siege sneak up on them
  • (3) has no sitter
  • (4) is not in an alliance
  • (5) and Global is not informed about siege activity (as you proposed)
  • (btw, this described me two months ago - no sitter, not in an alliance)
would have one less city when they got back...after being away for only four days - THIS IS STUPIDITY.  I have been away for more than four days in the past - this game doesn't control my life.  Furthermore, what if a siege was launched to each one of their cities while away - they could come back after only four days to have NO cities left.  This is not the spirit of Illyriad.  I am not saying this to discourage someone from attacking another - I am simply pointing out that what is being proposed is a recipe for the complete and utter downfall of the very game we have all come to know and love. 

Originally posted by Calico_Jack Calico_Jack wrote:

why do people worry about new players? hell if i attack a player with 30k pop and he/she goes running to GC i will be in trouble because im 20k bigger...
This is not always the case.  The players who get in trouble are the ones that are going out of their way to be a jerk to another.  If you are simply attacking someone to get a rise out of them or get a little action, that is great as long as they are willing to fight with you.  But the ones that go running to Global are the ones that are:
  • (1) not wanting to fight
  • (2) not set up to handle fighting (perhaps they are playing for the trade aspect of the game)
  • (3) or completely too small to fight for themselves
When the player continues aggressions against another who falls into one of the three (and there could very well be more reasons why they are not willing or unable to agree to any dueling initiated by the instigator), then others who can and will meet the challenge step in.  Then all of a sudden, the hunter becomes the hunted and accuses others of being a big bully.  (>.<)  History repeats itself. 

Originally posted by Calico_Jack Calico_Jack wrote:

oh AND NO FREAKING FUSSING DUAL SYSTEM, open world PvP is why we are here, anyone who tries to undermine this gets my spears in painful places...
Open world PvP is part of the game, yes - but not the only part of the game.  You speak for yourself, but you project your own reasons for playing upon others.  Some are here to develop and become masters of trade . . . others are more inclined to secrets, misinformation, and deception . . . others lean towards the diplomatic aspect . . . some like the strategy . . . some wish to become masters of a territory, but have no interest in total domination . . . while still others are happy and content with "medieval farmville."  War and PvP is one of many ways to play.

Now, with that being said - If two consensual players wish to engage in a PvP battle / duel without anyone from the outside interfering, then I 100% support this and wish them luck.  Likewise, if two alliances wish the same, I applaud them and will happily stand on the sidelines cheering them both on...  I only hope their playing isn't to completely remove the other from the game...

Originally posted by Calico_Jack Calico_Jack wrote:

i said in a previous post that they should in this case add a occupy ability to scouts, so that you can plan them around your borders and by so they will keep an eye on that area for as long as you say before sending them out
I couldn't agree more with being able to set scouts to occupy a space!  I would love to see a whole thread on this!  Imagine occupying 50k thieves into one city to ensure it could NEVER be thieved!  Imagine sending scouts to occupy a spot with troops and the opponent not being able to scout unless they have a greater number.  There are so many possibilities!  (please start a thread about this if you feel it's worth discussing further)  However, I would not want to have to ship out 50+ every few weeks just to know if I am about to be sieged.  Whats more, new players who are not in an alliance have no way to set up any detection for an incoming attack - and this is unfair to those who are just starting out in the game.
"Side? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side" ~LoTR

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2012 at 20:29
Yes, (to the previous posts) covert raids are an interesting possibility - this could be a feature added in for those who wish to sneak up on their opponent.  Good thinking.  
"Side? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side" ~LoTR

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2012 at 20:42
on my intentional rage attack again the dual system as it was intentionally written in cap for the effect of orc rage :P

on the issue of sight range of cities which right now are infinite, maybe a compromise on this, longer sight and if someone in your alliance sees the army you get the report and "hidden" scouts following it.

I just think the infinite range to see armies are too much and leaves Scouts less useful then they could be, (still very useful during sieges)


Also on new players seeing them far away or not, dont see how that matters, as a new player it takes even longer to raise troops, but on the other hand getting 100 scouts is quite easy.

lvl 1 Consulate building
super cheap tech
1 gold per hour upkeep

and for just having a look around i would think you dont need more then 10 per location to be useful


But i can see how with the current map and the way armies can move that a compromise would be needed.

But as in your situation you brought forth.. well maybe you should have thought about that? :P

Your choice of alliance and if you want a sitter or not is up to the person but as with anything you will have to accept the consequences, same if you join a alliance that goes to war with H? or Crows Tongue that is your choice and so you die LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2012 at 20:53
Yes, in my situation, I was well aware of the possibility of an attack.  However, there was no game feature that would allow a siege to sneak up . . . That is (after all) what I am taking a firm stance against.

Covert raids, on the other hand, could be in interesting development.
"Side? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side" ~LoTR

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2012 at 20:58
i could see a 4-5 day or something spotting range on a siege, since being a siege is a slow moving horde of troops and materials for the siege, which is easily spotted, and a big deal, still dont want it to be seen 8 days away  Tongue

But raids and normal attack i think should not be seen until inside range  Smile

So what you said sounds good to me
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2012 at 21:01
(^_^)  Agreed!  And about the 8 days away thing...  yeah, I have send (and received) some which are 12 days...  plenty of warning - in fact too much.  I got so distracted with seeing it there every day that I eventually stopped paying attention.  When it finally hit, I forgot all about it - lol
"Side? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side" ~LoTR

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2012 at 21:07
now comes the hard part, implementing it... i dont do webdesign or programming/scripting only game-design and level creation...   Tongue

need to capture a dev and make him/her start working on it  Embarrassed
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2012 at 21:14
Originally posted by SunStorm SunStorm wrote:



Originally posted by Calico_Jack Calico_Jack wrote:

why do people worry about new players? hell if i attack a player with 30k pop and he/she goes running to GC i will be in trouble because im 20k bigger...
This is not always the case.  The players who get in trouble are the ones that are going out of their way to be a jerk to another.  If you are simply attacking someone to get a rise out of them or get a little action, that is great as long as they are willing to fight with you.  But the ones that go running to Global are the ones that are:
  • (1) not wanting to fight
  • (2) not set up to handle fighting (perhaps they are playing for the trade aspect of the game)
  • (3) or completely too small to fight for themselves
When the player continues aggressions against another who falls into one of the three (and there could very well be more reasons why they are not willing or unable to agree to any dueling initiated by the instigator), then others who can and will meet the challenge step in.  Then all of a sudden, the hunter becomes the hunted and accuses others of being a big bully.  (>.<)  History repeats itself. 


Um, or they are the people that know if they *pretend* to be scared on gc the crusaders will pop up and kill their enemy. We could test this out by getting a few people to have secret newbie accounts then randomly popping up on global in the next few months complaining of big bad players when in reality they just want to start some trouble by killing someone.
 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2012 at 21:39
Originally posted by Calico_Jack Calico_Jack wrote:

need to capture a dev
DEV's are like leprechauns - very hard to catch, but if ya get one, they just might grant you a wish!  (^_^)

Originally posted by Subatoi Subatoi wrote:

Um, or they are the people that know if they *pretend* to be scared on gc the crusaders will pop up and kill their enemy. We could test this out by getting a few people to have secret newbie accounts then randomly popping up on global in the next few months complaining of big bad players when in reality they just want to start some trouble by killing someone.
Yes, that may very well be another method to try.  However, I would like to point out the following...

Originally posted by Subatoi Subatoi wrote:

they *pretend* to be scared
Nobody that is looking for a fight is going to *pretend* to be scared.  Either they were attacked and don't want to enter into a PvP competition (and are truly scared because the other player is continuing hostilities which they want no part of), or they were actually the instigator trying to cause trouble - and the attack was a result of their own actions.  This has happened before, and nobody came to help them.  Does the player "Aneirin" ring a bell?

Originally posted by Subatoi Subatoi wrote:

We could test this out by getting a few people to have secret newbie accounts then randomly popping up on global in the next few months complaining of big bad players when in reality they just want to start some trouble by killing someone.
Sounds like you might have already tried this.  I remember a week ago a player still under new player protection claiming that another player had just attacked and thieved them...  not too smart if ya ask me.  FURTHERMORE, there is always the burden of proof.  If their claim can be substantiated beyond a doubt, then yes - others will offer them help.  However, there have been attempts which new players have tried to make such claims and they have turned out to be false. 
"Side? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side" ~LoTR

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2012 at 23:07
I agree with SunStorm.  I recall a couple of cases where players tried to start trouble by having another new player (or it might have been an alt) attack them and then complain about it.  The situation was fairly quickly sussed out by gc.

Not sure why people find this sort of behavior amusing, but it takes all kinds, I suppose.
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