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belargyle 
Forum Warrior   Joined: 17 Jun 2010 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 401 |
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 Quote Reply  Posted: 23 Jan 2014 at 12:45 |
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RIll, just go back and read what I wrote.
It is very simple - people's attitude and more especially what I specifically stated.
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| belargyle
Forum Warrior Joined: 17 Jun 2010 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 401 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jan 2014 at 13:04 |
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Not full stop. You jumped into a conversation dealing with cities lost, wherein the causation was due to sieges. In keeping with said conversation I dealt with you on the premise of the original conversation. If you left that premise and continued trying to argue from another point, that is your fault.
The discussion did not revolved around your opinion but what was initially discussed regarding 'tremendous losses' of Dlord, TVM, TCol - which was specifically about cities being sieged.
Another point, numbers do 'speak'. The 14th and 15th of 26 definitions for speaks says:
14.
to
declare
in
writing
or
printing,
or
by
any
means
of
communication.
15.
to make known, indicate, or reveal
Thus yes, the numbers do speak and the message you were trying to make them convey did not (per your own statement) actually have anything to do with the discussion I engaged Tam on
As for RE, I got you and Tam confused and fused the two discussion together. My apologies on that.
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| Darkwords
Postmaster General   Joined: 23 May 2011 Status: Offline Points: 1005 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jan 2014 at 13:18 |
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Lol... what is it with people that can not accept a difference in opinion, all this he said she said, but I think... and therefore YOU are all wrong.
Really, can't we just grow up and accept different people view things and value things in different ways. Tam like I and others consider DLords to have suffered Tremendous losses, Bela does not view things this way.... end of. |
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<Deranzin> I'd agree with darkone on that
[21:59]<ropadope> you know I am perverted <Bartleby> dark is upsetting some peeps |
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| belargyle
Forum Warrior Joined: 17 Jun 2010 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 401 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jan 2014 at 13:51 |
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No. It is based upon THIS war and All previous wars.
We discussed your terms, and rejected them. We do thank you for discussing them.
There is more to peace than loss of cities or armies, till you understand that you will be hard pressed to find ...peace.
Ego?? No, not at all. We would gladly surrender, if our surrender didn't empower our adversaries with gold and T2 resource to continue assaults against our friends and allies; AND if it didn't mean breaking our oath to friends and allies; AND if it didn't cripple us militarily to the point if attacked we can have "NO" guaranteed protection against certain alliances that would attack us trying to abuse and/or trying to take advantage of our weekness of not being allowed to build armies to 'x' amount
I have tried to work with Ditto for any members that want to leave Dlord. And a few have availed themselves of this for various reasons. But the whole of the rest has chosen to stay the course.
It isn't Ego that prevents us (as in the alliance as a whole) from surrendering - it is honor.
Honor to our oath to defend our allies to the last town we have (we take our oaths seriously)
Honor to not give our adversaries more to hurt our friends and allies we have sworn to defend.
Honor in fact that we do not agree with your 'ideology' for the game and based primarily but in direct accordance with your reasons for this war.
As do i, as do most. However I do not begrudge anyone the honor for being able to take a large amount of cities. I just don't like skewed numbers.
And yet that is exactly what you will most always get if you can't find or obtain a common ground.
Threat of force is part of the game and it is one of the aspects that can help in negotiations. Don't believe me... I can show you terms for peace in this war and it is funny how force is described as a means for getting what they want.
I didn't join Illy to play Farmville but I also didn't join to play Evony either. My favorite part of the game is negotiations. However I have had my fair share of threats and challenges against us. And yes, prior to the Consone war Dlord was threatened a couple of times that if we didn't cow-tow to a groups demands they would bring in their friends. I told them I wasn't scared. Threats don't scare me, sieging my account doesn't scare me. They didn't do and I called their bluff. But it doesn't diminish the fact we too were threatened with force and large forces to try to force us to yield.
Edited by belargyle - 23 Jan 2014 at 14:19 |
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| belargyle
Forum Warrior Joined: 17 Jun 2010 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 401 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jan 2014 at 14:10 |
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I agree there are different views in this. Correcting a person where they were incorrect on facts directly related to the context of the subject of 'siege / losses' is not the same thing as a difference of opinions here. His opinion is his own and I agree. In fact, if I were to use his numbers and used all cities no longer a part of Dlord as losses since the war - then I would, without question, agree we have had 'tremendous losses' but I would state more so 'devastating losses'.
However, the discussion was about cities that were sieged and thus the phrase 'tremendous losses" directly relates to those cities intentionally removed by another alliance. I agree that Tam and I can have a difference of opinion on what constitutes this phrase comeing into play, however Tath brought in losses that were not a part of the numbers being discussed by Tam nor myself. Yet these additional numbers were interposed into the figures being initially discussed and caused them to be skewed greatly.
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| Tatharion
Wordsmith  Joined: 11 Jun 2012 Status: Offline Points: 139 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jan 2014 at 14:28 |
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"Never ruin an apology with an excuse"
Benjamin Franklin
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Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong.
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| jtk310
New Poster   Joined: 05 Jun 2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jan 2014 at 14:30 |
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Pardon me folks, I would like to post something from page one of this thread:
This thread is obviously far off topic, and since it was considered closed on the first page I would greatly appreciate it if everyone would consider this matter closed.
RE will remain neutral, I think that is one thing everyone in the thread agrees with. Since this thread will be associated with my alliance, I hope you understand my desire for these outside conversations to be continued in other threads. I see the connection to Praetor Nistiner's post, so I get how the topic got where it is. I just hope you will all respect my wishes and continue the discussion elsewhere. I don't want this kind of negativity and war talk associated with RE as we try to grow.
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| Tamaeon
Wordsmith  Joined: 19 Dec 2011 Location: Centrum Status: Offline Points: 152 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jan 2014 at 17:30 |
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We'll have to agree to disagree on the similarities between this war and previous wars. However I thank you for clarifying some points, in particular your reasons for fighting.
If honor is your motivation for continuing the fight, then the reason(s) stated above is moot. Don't get me wrong; I just think that any disagreement over the proposed terms could have been resolved through negotiation. That said, we should refrain from public discussion of the subject...
I can definitely respect honor as a reason for fighting;
thank you for clarifying this.
I begrudge the fact that my side is being forced to raze hundreds, maybe thousands of towns before being able to end the war. While (some) people on your side remain more than eager to blame all the destruction on us.
Its exactly the spin, (public) mischaracterization of terms, posturing and name calling which prevent both sides from engaging in meaningful dialog.
(btw, the above is especially directed at Praetor Nistiner...)
We obviously have differences of opinion, which are heavily founded in cynicism and even resentment towards each other in certain cases. But if any side is truly interested in peace, we can't be labelling each other and playing blame games. The fact remains that we're at war, and our side for one begrudges all the destruction, and especially the "price" which is being set for victory.
It seems that we will remain at an impasse for now. I do thank you for taking the time to explain your position, and wish you well in the coming battles. Perhaps both sides should try to make an honest effort to understand the other's reasons for continuing the war. Maybe then we'll be able to find an acceptable route towards lasting peace.
PS: I just want to add that Pellinell's comment isn't exactly constructive...
Kinda hard to have an honest conversation; while people drop by to throw jabs, only to run away afterwards!
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"How happy is the blameless vestal's lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each prayer accepted, and each wish resigned."
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| Praetor Nistiner
Greenhorn   Joined: 09 Jan 2014 Status: Offline Points: 49 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jan 2014 at 17:39 |
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| Tamaeon
Wordsmith Joined: 19 Dec 2011 Location: Centrum Status: Offline Points: 152 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jan 2014 at 17:48 |
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I have to disagree jtk. The conversation has evolved organically from Nistiner's original post
(which contained subjective opinions, and even characterizations of "the confederation"); to which I replied, and he subsequently replied back to.
I'm sure Nistiner originally
meant to post a simple statement, but he ended up turning it into a conversation
This thread has already been moved from recruitment into politics and diplomacy. And honestly; I don't think this will reflect badly on RE, unless maybe... if someone nukes it by invoking/breaking Godwin's law. If anything, this post has had the positive effect of bringing people from both sides
(and even "neutrals") together for an honest heart to heart.
Edited by Tamaeon - 23 Jan 2014 at 18:12 |
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"How happy is the blameless vestal's lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each prayer accepted, and each wish resigned."
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Rill wrote: