Play Now Login Create Account
illyriad
   New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Prestige
   FAQ FAQ   Forum Search    Register Register   Login Login

Topic ClosedPrestige

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Illyriad Admin View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 392
Direct Link To This Post Topic: Prestige
    Posted: 21 Mar 2010 at 22:02
WHAT IS PRESTIGE?
Prestige is the ingame currency that you can spend on both instant effects as well as bonuses over time that provide benefits to your playing experience and your town's growth.

WHAT PRESTIGE CAN DO FOR YOU

You can see all the available spend options by clicking on the Prestige link on the left hand side of your game screen.

HOW TO GET PRESTIGE

You are given some free Prestige when you start playing Illyriad, and you may spend this as you wish.

You can earn Prestige by referring players to Illyriad via our Buddy Programme - and you can find details about this ingame, on the "Prestige / About" page.

You can also buy Prestige via PayPal or via Credit/Debit card.

OUR PHILOSOPHY REGARDING PRESTIGE

Illyriad is going to be around for a long time.

We have a very substantial development and expansion list, much of which is publically accessible in these forums (so you can view, comment, and even influence what we're working on).

We believe that the most valuable players in Illyriad are not those who spend (or don't spend) their cash on buying Prestige. 

The most valuable players
are active players who participate both inside the game (active and growing their Empire/Alliance) and outside the game (active in the forums, helping new players, setting up fansites and wikis etc).

We don't believe in trying to fleece players for a quick buck.  We believe that if the game is good, addictive, rewarding to play and has a strong playerbase then the rewards for the company and our shareholders will follow naturally.

Don't get us wrong - at its core, Illyriad Games Limited earns money to pay for the servers, advertising, staff, graphic design, development costs, and everything else that keeps this game both running and developing further - by selling Prestige to players.

However, unlike some other games, we don't believe that the game should be unbalanced - or the game interface crippled - for players who do not choose to buy Prestige.  We know that there are games out there that allow you to spend money on the equivalent of an " I win" button, and there are games out there that (eg) do not allow you to queue building orders unless you spend money with them.  We found these games as frustrating as you did.

Sure, if we added a Prestige Spend option to (eg) instantly complete Research queues, or instantly build Settlers then we'd make some short-term money off of it.  But it would be at the expense of the long term game, and you: our core playerbase.

And we're not going to do that.

We have chosen what we allow prestige to be spent on (and how much it costs) very carefully indeed, and we hope that you think we've achieved a good balance.

We also believe that you should be able to earn Prestige by helping Illyriad to grow, which is why we have the Buddy Programme - where you earn Prestige by referring players to Illyriad.

We hope you agree with this general philosophy, and please feel free to let us know what you think by replying in this thread.
Back to Top
HonoredMule View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General
Avatar

Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1650
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2010 at 22:28
While I agree with your stated philosophy toward monetizing the game, I feel that the addition of military bonuses does not.  It is a bonus that applies too directly against other players to allow a continued sense of fairness to remain between paying and non-paying players.  Further, it is an imbalance that cannot be measured prior to engagement.  Players will have that much harder a time knowing whether they are picking equal opponents or not.

I am a paying player, and as such I can already outpace non-paying players in economic development.  But I will not be spending my prestige on these military bonuses.  That's just too much.


Edited by HonoredMule - 21 Mar 2010 at 22:30
Back to Top
Uther View Drop Down
New Poster
New Poster


Joined: 14 Mar 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 16
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2010 at 22:34
I don't know if this is the right place for this, but:

"We believe that the most valuable players in Illyriad are not those who spend (or don't spend) their cash on buying Prestige."

I think that is a great guiding principle.

I also think giving military/diplomatic benefits like the most recent changes are in opposition to that principle.  If my account has no Prestige, I am further and further away from those who do.  It is quite a disincentive, in my opinion.  Outside of being slower to upgrade, get resources, etc... (which as a basic going in position, I accept) I now have to be 10% better at diplomacy and military actions in order to just be even with my money paying compatriots.

I am not opposed to the folks hosting/developing this game to making a buck to defray the costs.  I really appreciate and value the developer attention and quick response to issues.  I have just seen too many games get killed by the fact that those with money invested are given such a significant leg up that it is non-competitive.

My 2 pence for what they are worth.

Regards,

U


Back to Top
GM Stormcrow View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
GM

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Location: Illyria
Status: Offline
Points: 3820
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2010 at 22:46
In defence (of course, what did you expect!) of the military bonuses: in the grand scheme of things 10% is a relatively small amount and does not come close to being a deciding factor in combat.

A level 10 commander provides 10% (if you level him up in one area), and a level 10 commander is not difficult to come by.

Terrain bonuses provide as much as 60% differential, and city walls can provide over 100% differential. 

The Combat schools of magic will provide similar bonuses and penalties to Prestige spend as well.

All of these stack, so there is more than 200% variance simply in the ingame mechanics excluding Prestige spend.

We totally agree that these bonuses would be a decisive and unbalanced game-changing factor if there weren't so many other modifiers already in play, and the game team (including myself) did not feel that a "Prestigable" 10% bonus in either (or both) directions was a "game-changer" given the 200% plus other factors at play.

We totally understand that, given 2 min/maxed armies of entirely equal force, then the Prestige spend of 10% would be decisive, but the margin would be very small.  +250% vs +240%, say, would mean one army's total destruction - and the other army's very near total destruction.


Edited by GM Stormcrow - 21 Mar 2010 at 22:49
Back to Top
Diablito View Drop Down
Wordsmith
Wordsmith
Avatar

Joined: 27 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 183
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2010 at 22:54
Considering how cheap prestige is, I don't really feel this is imbalanced at all.

75 prestige costs less than a bus ticket where I live.
Back to Top
HonoredMule View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General
Avatar

Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1650
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2010 at 23:23
Originally posted by Diablito Diablito wrote:

Considering how cheap prestige is, I don't really feel this is imbalanced at all.

75 prestige costs less than a bus ticket where I live.


75 is just a number.  As it so happens, 75 prestige is also worth less than a bus ticket.  So what's your point, exactly?

The average single use of prestige costs between 7 and 10 cents USD or CDN, and confers a very small privilege:  skipping a tedious one-time wait for construction to end or goods to arrive;  getting a little bit more of one resource over the course of a week; get a new random quest to consider taking (and the quests are quite useless now anyway, costing more than they provide).

But with these military bonuses, immediate shifts in balance can be responsively applied in a much wider variety of scenarios.  Tired of laurachristine's cleptomania?  See incoming attacks?   Spend ~9 cents, and suddenly I'm 10% more capable of repelling her thieves, not just now but for an entire week to follow!  Want to start a war?  Spend one dollar and gain a 20% (attack + defense) advantage over the enemy that doesn't do the same...not just for your big attack, but for all attacks probably lasting until after your war ends.  Sure other larger bonuses apply...but both sides have equal capacity to influence those factors.  In the end, Mr. Penniless is decisively 20% behind.

Further the depth and variety of ways to spend prestige widens an already tense gap.  With this many options, we flirt with a "he who spends the most, wins" outcome.  I'm starting to think I'd rather pay a flat monthly fee to play.  It would be fair, equitable, and all but destroy multi-account cheaters.  Or, since that would scare off too many, pay a flat fee to enjoy a set of minor statically applied benefits such as much longer research and construction queues, ability to schedule attacks, and other such conveniences that non-paying players could replace with greater attention and dedication to their accounts.

The game is a load of fun and totally worth a reasonable investment.  But I'm not ready to see the level of that "reasonable investment" be determined by a bidding war.
Back to Top
HonoredMule View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General
Avatar

Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1650
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2010 at 23:32
Also, I'd like to point out that it doesn't matter how much it costs one particular person.  If we cannot all spend equally, then we are not all on equal grounds.  That is the crux of the issue.  It does not even matter whether the shortage is in willingness or capability.
Back to Top
fluffy View Drop Down
Forum Warrior
Forum Warrior
Avatar

Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 335
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2010 at 23:39
Personally, I dont have the money to spend on prestige, so that already puts me at a disadvantage for city building.  Now, I'm at a disadvantage for fighting.  If people that use prestige attack/defend against me , they wont lose as much with a bonus and then they'll be able to rebuild quicker too.  I guess I'll be falling even further behind now.
Back to Top
Uther View Drop Down
New Poster
New Poster


Joined: 14 Mar 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 16
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2010 at 23:40
Stormcrow,

If you felt it was indefensible, I assume you guys wouldn't have implemented it Wink

Just a view from outside... mucking around with battle/diplo settings represents a step in the wrong direction.  I think the argument that "there are so many more variables, what's one more?" is misleading.  All those other variables cancel themselves out in aggregate, this one doesn't.  It is unfortunate that military/diplo variables are now subject to revenue considerations.  It sends the wrong message.  I can now buy my way to military advantage... or in the other direction, without spending, I get a 10% penalty. 

While from well above the fray, it may appear mathematically not a large impact, I believe it is chilling and and represents a slide (a slippery one?) towards a lack of balance.  I have already heard this from others... perhaps they will chime in. 
Back to Top
Parennis View Drop Down
New Poster
New Poster


Joined: 24 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 26
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2010 at 00:43
Originally posted by Uther Uther wrote:

Stormcrow,

If you felt it was indefensible, I assume you guys wouldn't have implemented it Wink

Just a view from outside... mucking around with battle/diplo settings represents a step in the wrong direction.  I think the argument that "there are so many more variables, what's one more?" is misleading.  All those other variables cancel themselves out in aggregate, this one doesn't.  It is unfortunate that military/diplo variables are now subject to revenue considerations.  It sends the wrong message.  I can now buy my way to military advantage... or in the other direction, without spending, I get a 10% penalty. 

While from well above the fray, it may appear mathematically not a large impact, I believe it is chilling and and represents a slide (a slippery one?) towards a lack of balance.  I have already heard this from others... perhaps they will chime in. 

meh.

you're happy with +20% production bonuses which seem to carry more weight than the military bonuses that are now being offered, but this is a 'step in the wrong direction'?

you could buy your way to production advantage and without spending you suffered a 20pc penatly, and you didn't say boo then

'chilling?'.  chill out yourself, hypocrit.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.