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patoloco569
New Poster
Joined: 27 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 15 |
Posted: 31 Oct 2012 at 05:24 |
Aral wrote:
It's a good thing all the jokes about noble gasses argon, otherwise I'd be tempted to post one.
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Well done. The most entertaining and clear post here. This thread should now be locked.
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Mandarins31
Forum Warrior
Joined: 05 Jun 2010 Status: Offline Points: 418 |
Posted: 31 Oct 2012 at 10:03 |
You have some good points Hellion, but if you want to argue on something, would you argue on what are for me the main questions i brought in my post (and this is adressed to Deranzin as well).
If i sum up what you said somewhere in your post, you say that a siege on an active player and during general peace time, is the logical escalation from diplomacy talks in a dead end. I reply to that by saying that at this scale there always is a diplomatic solution, mostly if some 3rd parties propose their help in the negociations, and i re-ask this:
Dont you think, from what i explained about the difference between an account (towns, buildings) and short-lived products (units, ressources...) (do you agree with that vision already?), that sieging an active player is in any case an overreaction?
And don't you think it should be commonly admitted over the Illy community, that we should break any siege sent against an active player during peace times, as it's a direct attack on his account?
And just for those who say that in other games, being destroyed happens all the time, i reply that Illy is a slow paced game, which gives more value to what you do and possess, and also that it seeks to be different and more mature.
Im interested in having your or anyone else's point of view on this subject.
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Deranzin
Postmaster
Joined: 10 Oct 2011 Status: Offline Points: 845 |
Posted: 31 Oct 2012 at 11:22 |
Mandarins31 wrote:
You have some good points Hellion, but if you want to argue on something, would you argue on what are for me the main questions i brought in my post (and this is adressed to Deranzin as well).
..................
Im interested in having your or anyone else's point of view on this subject.
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Nice contradiction there ... you are NOT interested in other people's opinions, you ignore what we write and you just want your view to be heard again and again and again while saying that you'd like to hear other points of view ... yup, quite the contradiction ...
Your "main questions" are based on inaccurate data so try again later with better data ... :p
Better data = better questions = better answers = better discussion ... if you are interesting in a discussion that is, instead of a sermon of your beliefs, as you are doing now ...
Have a nice day. :)
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hellion19
Forum Warrior
Joined: 01 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 310 |
Posted: 31 Oct 2012 at 17:12 |
Mandarins31 wrote:
You have some good points Hellion, but if you want to argue on something, would you argue on what are for me the main questions i brought in my post (and this is adressed to Deranzin as well).
If i sum up what you said somewhere in your post, you say that a siege on an active player and during general peace time, is the logical escalation from diplomacy talks in a dead end. I reply to that by saying that at this scale there always is a diplomatic solution, mostly if some 3rd parties propose their help in the negociations, and i re-ask this:
Dont you think, from what i explained about the difference between an account (towns, buildings) and short-lived products (units, ressources...) (do you agree with that vision already?), that sieging an active player is in any case an overreaction?
And don't you think it should be commonly admitted over the Illy community, that we should break any siege sent against an active player during peace times, as it's a direct attack on his account?
And just for those who say that in other games, being destroyed happens all the time, i reply that Illy is a slow paced game, which gives more value to what you do and possess, and also that it seeks to be different and more mature.
Im interested in having your or anyone else's point of view on this subject.
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If the dead end in diplomacy ends with the other side making personal attacks on you and telling the other side to come at you. Then yes because that is likely their diplomat that is doing their talking at this point. Just from reading the pms that were passed back and fourth from ABSA I would almost say they orchestrated the actual war :P.
Overreaction? No. With any diplomacy if it is to fail then there are consequences which sometimes will be heavier than others. Again looking at the way ABSA dealt with this step of the progression of things shows they obviously didn't care about the fact that RHY would fight them.
There is a difference between breaking a siege of an active player not causing problems and an active player causing problems. Looking back on old threads there are a few wars it seemed people were fine with sieges if they felt the enemy was deserving. Your simply on the enemies side this time.
Destroying doesn't happen all the time actually not as far as cities go. Military is destroyed frequently however. Sometimes when things break down though its easier to renegotiate when things people value are being broken if they continue. If you disagree with how your own alliance handles things then leave. Generally if your looking to play peacefully there are a number of training alliances that are strictly peaceful like T? and HUGS to name a few.
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Rasak
Wordsmith
Joined: 26 Nov 2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 140 |
Posted: 01 Nov 2012 at 06:11 |
I am not in H? but I have read a lot of the old forums and I think I have a good handle on what they would do in a war type situation. I could be wrong and I am very willing to be corrected here if anyone can find evidence that exists contrary to my thoughts.
My guess is that H? has objectives laid out by now of what must be accomplished before they are willing to suffer peace talks. I would imagine they have goals along the lines of this person needs to suffer this sort of loss and that person that sort of loss in proportion to their level of participation. I believe only 2 things will change their objectives. Either they begin suffering substantial losses and need to exit the war to save what they can (can't attest to this as it has never happened). Or Consone does things to add more objectives to H?'s to do list.
The evidence is all over H?'s past. Look up the old wars and see how they end. They typically don't wipe out their enemy. As an example... going way back... White attacked H? and H? attacked them till they surrendered. H? took their pound of flesh and left White be. White later came back and attacked again. This time they used some tactics that made H? fight more forcefully and H? became aware that White would never leave them in peace unless they were removed. Look it up if you need reference, its all here in the forums.
This is typical for H? that I have seen. They don't tend to wipe people out of the game and people that say otherwise tend to be misinformed. There have been a few cases where this happened but there were always under circumstances that required it for one reason or another.
I don't think that anyone here is justified in thinking that H?'s goal is total annihilation. Look at it from their perspective. What fun would it be if they removed the whole of the only alliance that has chosen to attack them after over a year of waiting.
Now Consone on the other hand, I have no idea what they will do if they become the world power. They seem to have no real sense of self. One hand doesn't seem to know what the other is doing. They seem to have gotten themselves into a war they didn't want yet seemed to have almost unanimously voted to get into. Their organization seems to be almost nonexistent. There is no central leadership and no method of reining in their members for bad behavior. They seem to be supporting a war that was started by one of their own over-exuberant members attacking out of turn and when they were asked to make reparations they laughed and insulted Rhy. Why they chose to support this war I have no idea but they keep tossing out the words "defending our confederates." Who is the governing body to go to when one of their members misbehaves? If the alliance of the offender chooses to ignore diplomacy? Will Consone always defend their members even if their members are in the wrong? I feel Consone is not yet ready for this responsibility, they have a lot of things that needs to be worked on. I think It would be wise of them to start smaller and work their way up.
Plus side, it appears H? is willing to help with that.
In conclusion, If H? wins this I have a good idea how things will turn out, and I personally approve of that. If Consone wins.... may the gods Illy have mercy on us all.
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patoloco569
New Poster
Joined: 27 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 15 |
Posted: 01 Nov 2012 at 06:29 |
I just want answers.
Where are the Consone weapons of mass destruction? Why haven't they be found? Did H? go to war half cocked without fully knowing if they even had these weapons? Did Consone manage to ship all their WMD to the Crows? Are they the next target of H??
And when did Consone know of the attack on their consulate near the mine in question? Why did they claim it was "just a demonstration" and later blame it on some H? produced video that nobody ever watched? When did Consone know what, and why didn't they do anything to prevent it?
And at the Styrofoam factory, what do they pack Styrofoam in?
These are the things that trouble me.....
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ES2
Postmaster
Joined: 25 Sep 2012 Status: Offline Points: 550 |
Posted: 01 Nov 2012 at 13:15 |
Grego wrote:
There is small difference, one side is willing to stop the war since beginning while other want to pursue it until annihilation of chosen enemy. I don't think any of Consone alliances were enemy to Harmless ? before. |
From the posts of Harmless taking over illy and oppressing everyone for weeks on end, I think there may have been a teeny tiny bit of ill will towards H? prior to this war.
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Eternal Fire
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twilights
Postmaster
Joined: 21 May 2012 Status: Offline Points: 915 |
Posted: 01 Nov 2012 at 14:47 |
war is very fun, i urge others to join in, there is so much strategy involved, it really makes u rethink your play in the game....anyways good luck everyone and have fun, remember its a game! as one of my role models would say...Its Hot.........
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KillerPoodle
Postmaster General
Joined: 23 Feb 2010 Status: Offline Points: 1853 |
Posted: 01 Nov 2012 at 14:52 |
patoloco569 wrote:
Aral wrote:
It's a good thing all the jokes about noble gasses argon, otherwise I'd be tempted to post one.
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Well done. The most entertaining and clear post here. This thread should now be locked.
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Agreed - lets shut this down before another of those long posts which are boron everyone arrives.
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"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM
"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill
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hellion19
Forum Warrior
Joined: 01 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 310 |
Posted: 01 Nov 2012 at 19:21 |
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Nice post overall Rasak with some things I agree with and other things I disagree on but overall I feel its one of the least biased posts here.
Its kind of what I tried to state on the forums upto this point pertaining to Consone. Its part of why it is mostly destined for failure is that it has no central authority and anyone in the alliance can push the entire Consone into war. ABSA attacks then threatens RHY and in turn Consone backs ABSA. Its why at the end of the day I agree with your conclusion in that as a server we all know what were getting with H? where its at... They have been relatively fair in talks as I have to give in a number of times when I was simply in the wrong. Consone was pretty clearly in the wrong with the whole ABSA thing but will back it without any real debate or thought.
So the problem is with this... the future (if Consone takes the main lead on server) is going to likely be similar unless they change their methods of dealing with situations. No matter what a member of Consone does to your alliance they will back their side regardless of how poorly their side acted. Which simply means that a future with Consone running things is going to be simply either your on their side or you do what they say.
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