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Orc T1 Spears over powered
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Alfred View Drop Down
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Joined: 13 Jun 2014
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Points: 39 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alfred Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2015 at 10:00
I've played all the races to at least 6 cities, Not a long term experience but enough to have a guess.

I found Orc the most useful in teamplay & Elf the easiest race jack-of-all trades.
Without the cheap beer (or bows for elf spam, or even chain for the ole' fangs ) from the open market, Orcs quickly became resource intensive, It always seem to outstrip production in a way far worse than the Human Cow famine. 

For Veterans s or fed players with M/Billions worth of gold and resources. Orcs provide an advantage in the depths of war like no other. Which is why their're some evil Orc alts on the battlefield.
 
In-fact when I played Elf I sold all of my cows in peace for 800ea, and made pure t1 sword (+ Rams ) & t1 bow. Then In war I switched to t2 diplio in all towns instead. ( only 400 a cow nowadays? )

Orcs have horrid camp bursting armies, Dwarfs at least have Swordmen from
hell, Humans the attack value of Doom and Elf's is a decent blend or speed and attack from Bows & Cav.

Elf's just seem to blag-it with bulk archers. What you cant attack directly you can raid into the ground with cheep, swift, stern archers. Failing that you just compliment any blockade or siege with them.

I always end up logging into a Human account having all unit types with t1 cav, Guess I get bored if I'm not part of every operation going ;p

As a Human, I found Elfs my biggest problem, their 32 bow attack just munches my camp-enforcing units. And then they can bolster orcs anti-cav blobs from my Longbow men of 24 attack crappness.
Orcs are meh, but very effective.

It's probably why Humans just spam knights for pure attack value over correct terrain and unit use, It's not worth the risk or bother. As Illy slowly boosts all races "special" units, the only strategy is coming is from multiple accounts working together with mono-units tri-forces, with dwarfs being an optional extra.
Warning: may contain traces of sanity
( Current username Lord DeFault Ni old; King Alfred wCrow)
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jcx View Drop Down
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I think there's NO imbalance between all races.

All you need to do is exploit the bonuses that surrounds you. :D


Edited by jcx - 18 Nov 2015 at 12:12
Disclaimer: The above is jcx|orcboy's personal opinion and is not the opinion or policy of Harmless? [H?] or of the little green men that have been following him all day.

jcx in H? | orcboy in H?
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Angrim View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Brandmeister Brandmeister wrote:

Orcs are reasonably well represented among the ranks of larger players, because experienced players have grasped their particular advantages.
of the top 250 players on the leaderboard, i count only 15 orcs. someone with data connections might be able to perform the city count more easily than can i.

i do not really disagree with you, but i think the phenomenon is less pronounced than you imply. perhaps only a small portion of the player population ever delves deeply enough into illy combat statistics to appreciate the unique advantages of the orc...but one might also say that the orc's advantages are so narrow as to be outweighed by other factors in the choosing, and that would go directly to the OP.


Edited by Angrim - 18 Nov 2015 at 12:17
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Brandmeister View Drop Down
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Points: 2396 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2015 at 15:14
The only thing the leaderboard shows is who manipulated their scores. Orcs represent 20/100 top defenders by score, which is more representative of actual military and tournament contribution. Elves of course make up the bulk of top defenders.
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Points: 1173 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2015 at 17:26
Originally posted by Brandmeister Brandmeister wrote:

The only thing the leaderboard shows is who manipulated their scores.
that's a bit glib, Brand. i have not manipulated my score, and i'm confident there are others in the top 250 who have not.

Originally posted by Brandmeister Brandmeister wrote:

Orcs represent 20/100 top defenders by score, which is more representative of actual military and tournament contribution. Elves of course make up the bulk of top defenders.
again, i don't think we're disagreeing, but i think you are seeing what you want to see. that even among top military players orcs are less than 25% means something else to me--specifically, that the orc is far from overpowered according to the market.
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At lvl 20 barracks with no sov it takes 208 days to get to 100k t1 spears for orcs. In the same time frame you can only build almost 48k t1 bows. Additionally, t1 bows for elves have 2 times the upkeep for t1 spears for orcs. with 13 cav defense for orcs they have 1.3 mil defense. Elves have 16 cav defense, which means 768k total defense which gives a 532k difference in defense for cavs. That difference is over 9k t2 elvish cav defense. That is a huge difference. 
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Points: 2396 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2015 at 19:03
I'm not sure what that comparison proves. Bow units typically have poor or average cavalry defense. Spear units have good or excellent cavalry defense. That's their entire purpose. So saying that kobolds are better than sentinels at cavalry defense seems to be remarkably obvious. Sentinels are far superior to kobolds for bow defense. Stalwarts are superior to sentinels for all-purpose attack. Knights are better than stalwarts for plains attack. These are not revelations. It just highlights that particular units are good at their particular specialized jobs.
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And the fact that an orc can make 100k t1 spears in the time that it takes to make 48k t1 bows without sov is ok and fair to u?
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it doesnt have to be fair, each race is different, you choose your race based on the playstyle you like, orcs have a completely different playstyle then any other race, if you make all the races the same then why even bother having different races?  in fact you may want to refer to the following announcement to find out why the units are this way, there is a link on that post that gives the details why different units have different build times.


and once you take that DEV blog post into account your example becomes completely besides the point because the DEVs flat out state in it that sentinals are not the best elf unit for cav def/time.  so as along as you compare 2 units that do not have the same specialty then of course one of them will be overpowered in comparison to the other in their specialty.
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Points: 2396 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2015 at 20:28
Originally posted by demdigs demdigs wrote:

And the fact that an orc can make 100k t1 spears in the time that it takes to make 48k t1 bows without sov is ok and fair to u?

Yeah, absolutely. t1 spears aren't comparable to t1 bows in purpose. Kobolds are adequately balanced against the units they defend against, namely cavalry, and to a lesser extent infantry, especially when adjusted for terrain.
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