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Orc T1 Spears over powered
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demdigs View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 Nov 2015 at 18:58
GM's I believe that the current troop/time ratio for orc's t1 spears is way to powerful, the changes from this post http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/31mar13-military-unit-production-time-adjustments_topic4913_page1.html and the troop times are as follows:

Unit Name Race Old Build Time (secs) New Build Time (secs)

Militiaman  Human  1000  600
Pikeman Human 1200 900
Swordsman  Human  1200  770
Man-at-Arms Human 1400 900
Archer  Human  1000  750
Protector Elf 1000 620
Phalanx  Elf  1200  920
Warden Elf 1200 790
Wardancer  Elf  1400  900
Sentinel Elf 1000 750
Yeoman  Dwarf  1000  680
Halbardier Dwarf 1200 880
Axman  Dwarf  1200  780
Stalwart Dwarf 1400 960
Slinger  Dwarf  1000  780
Kobold Cohort Orc 1000 370
Clan Guardsman  Orc  1200  890
Fang Orc 1200 510
Fist  Orc  1400  840
Clanguard Orc 1000 760

I believe that the orc'n kobold is very over-powered and needs to be reduced because it is zerg level over-powered. At lvl 20 barracks without any sov the time is 3 min per, which is over 2 min and 15 seconds faster then the fastest elf unit, 1 race should not have almost half the total time of the corresponding unit in another unit, with the way each terrain bonus goes, spears are the most all around unit, so i believe either some of the other racial units get decreased or increase the t1 spear unit for orcs to lower the massive advantage that orcs have with the time per unit. 
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Points: 65 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lotharblack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2015 at 19:06
Orcs and other beastly creatures are always overpowered at such games. Its like all the developers of the world are vilains that want to see the evit triumphant....
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Points: 2396 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2015 at 19:24
If you think orcs are overpowered, I suggest you play one. Kobolds fill a specific role in the game, just like each other special racial unit fills a role. Under most conditions, dwarf stalwarts and elven sentinels will obliterate kobolds, even factoring in relative build times.
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Orc T1 spears are also the weakest of all the troops I believe. Please correct me if I am wrong. What about the update making Dwarf Infantry more powerful. No complaints about that? All these updates did was level the playing field a bit.
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Points: 6903 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2015 at 19:41
Wouldn't a level playing field be bad for dwarves?  I would think something with some mounds and hillocks and such would work much better.

"Give me something to stand on and I will rule the world." -- Joe Dwarf
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Points: 2396 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2015 at 00:15
Canesrule, I wouldn't consider kobolds to be the weakest troops. Not by a long shot. They have good sword defense and cavalry defense, and are cheap and quick to build. Kobolds are one of the strongest defensive units in the game relative to upkeep, build time, and build cost. They do have terrible bow defense and weak attack, but that's common to all basic spear units, and to an extent all advanced spear units as well. When mixed with defensive bows, kobolds are one of the toughest defenders in the game.

eCrow is currently running a siege war exercise against Dark Blight. DB has parked a few hundred thousand kobolds on a small mountain next to one of my cities, accompanied by human longbows and some sword units. Believe me, they are nasty little defenders under those conditions. Prior to the bows arriving, I took a swipe at them with 111,000 Axemen vs 236,000 kobolds. I lost 34,000 Axemen and they lost 79,000 kobolds. I probably won slightly on build time and upkeep, but lost terribly on build cost.

Overall I would call them a great defensive unit, and an asset to any alliance.
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if orcs had an insuperable advantage over other races, one might expect them to outnumber other races rather than (since the beginning of illy, afaik) being the least numerous race in the game.

http://www.puzzleslogic.com/illy/home.html
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Points: 2396 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2015 at 03:00
I bet if you broke out race by number of cities, you would see something different. I think many new players choose human or elf based on LotR and the descriptions, but those are little accounts. Orcs are reasonably well represented among the ranks of larger players, because experienced players have grasped their particular advantages.
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Originally posted by Angrim Angrim wrote:

if orcs had an insuperable advantage over other races, one might expect them to outnumber other races rather than (since the beginning of illy, afaik) being the least numerous race in the game.

http://www.puzzleslogic.com/illy/home.html

That assumes people know what they're doing when they make their account.  I think most newbies see in the starting description that humans and elves are good choices for new players and pick them because of that.  
"don't quote me on that" -Artefore
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Speaking on behalf of my alt  / Deimo   

i have voiced my opinions about this subject numerous times.   Orc units are exceptionally under-powered, not over-powered. 

kobolds are referred to by me as meatshields, they have one function on the battlefield and that is to die.  a task they perform admirably when struck by even the weakest unit of other races.  yes i can build a million kobolds in the time it takes an elf to build 150k sentinels. but when they meet, the elf will win every single time. on any terrain.  guaranteed. 

my argument isnt about the kobolds. i have long since accepted their place in illy. my concern, is with the outrageously expensive cost of a war wolf - 5 hides per unit!   and the disgraceful increase in strength of other races t2 units when the orc clanguardsmen has only a 1 point adv over other races in cav def - 33 vs cav.   
 
a dwarf halbardier has what. . 32 cav def?  or 31?  the t2 spear unit is woeful compared to the advantage a t2 trueshot has over other bowtypes. or a t2 knight has over other cav types.  and yes, the recent increase a stalwart has over other sword units.   shamefully neglected i would say in regard to orc units.  

and yes, ridiculously over exposed to bow attacks.    
Dave83/Deimo
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