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WeeAshley 
Wordsmith
Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 173 |
 Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 00:04 |
 DeathDealer89 wrote:
What was that about being bored? |
:)
I never like directly refuting someone, because it gets the wrong point across. By doing it below all I'm trying to show is that people that have been playing for a while may have lost sight of what the begining is like.
DeathDealer89 wrote:
When you start off, there is an immense amount of reading to do. |
The forum here has been fantastic. Most of the reading consists of forum posts of about 3 pages. Some less, some more. It's not an "immense" amount of reading, it's just scattered around. The unofficial wiki has been a great resource as well, but usually you need to be exposed to a game mechanic to start researching it there. For example I don't know the relative strengths of NPC units - but I don't have an army yet, so this information seems like it would be better looked at when one has need rather than trying to memorize everything, no?
I'm not denying that there is more to learn in Illy then any other browser based game I have played. But from what I understand, the core players here are older, further ahead in their respective careers. Compare Illy to a python programming book, or a university/college degree of any kind, or how an engine works... or anything in the real world and you can't say it is very complicated, can you?
And my final point on this - when has your excitement about a computer game started with a read through of the game manual? No, the game it started up and the manual comes later. Don't get me wrong - I'm one 2% that beat Civ4 on Deity, and a big part of that is understanding the micromanagement of every city/number. But I didn't read a manual, get excited, and then play. No, I played, got excited, and then read the manual. I would imagine I'm in the majority on this.
DeathDealer89 wrote:
Further the upgrades start out with only few minutes between them. By the time you get large enof to not have anything to do you can start your 2nd city and repeat. |
You haven't done this in a while! There is a block of time between the "few minutes" and the "second city." In my experience it was 10 days (edit: and it is the first 10 days - your first impression), and I had a lot of help in the form of resources! I stuck with it because
I'm a stubborn person. I would imagine that the majority of players here are. But 10 days of hitting, "Build resource level x" might be augmented with something even more engrossing, don't you think?
DeathDealer89 wrote:
... caravans... |
Indeed! I have a level 12 market and just made it up to 20 caravans. Since the second city landed they have been busy ferrying to that, but lets look at my first 14 days. 10 caravans, 300 and then 600 resources in each. 1 hour to gather 300. About an hour travel time total, give or take. It takes about 10 seconds to send out a caravan, and I have 10 of them.
DeathDealer89 wrote:
...cotters... |
I do have 7 cotters. They are send out together and (unlike caravans) gather simultaneously. Its about 1/2 a day to gather a resource. It takes about 10 seconds to do it, with about 60 minutes of travel time on average. Again, this isn't particularly micro management intensive at this point in the game. When I have 5 cities of 7 cotters I can see it being more of a task.
DeathDealer89 wrote:
... adv gatherers ... |
Oh my friend, you forget how far you have gone! Us newbs don't yet have the skills to gather advanced resources ;)
DeathDearler89 wrote:
Once you have gathered some stuff I guess you can start looking around for trades. |
Yes, you can look for them, but when you are lucky enough to have some activity at your local trading hub (can't see Centrum afterall) (can't fill entire buy/sell orders at cities afterall) you simply don't have enough gold to buy them.
DeathDealer89 wrote:
Then you can also dabble in NPC killing. |
I could! Unfortunately my 5 spearman would have been mangled by even the local pack of wolves.
DeathDealer89 wrote:
Then the mysteries. |
Yes, the mysteries. But again, you need to be a little older to start contributing to those in any real way.
DeathDealer89 wrote:
...searching for an alliance... |
This is a good one! Your choices are incredibly limited given that your population is no more than 200 when you start looking - but there are some great training guilds out there.
DeathDealer89 wrote:
...a spot to tele your cap, and future locations to settle cities consumes plenty of time |
It does indeed, but you can't realistically look far past your tele cap and first city. You do need that 7 food in order for the best chance of success late game right? Well, those are some sweet spots. Given that you need 2000 food for your 3rd city its probably better if you look then. Otherwise prepare for disappointment
when the spots are gone in a week from now.
DeathDealer89 wrote:
... Plus there are always small diplomatic problems that come with growing and gathering so you will have to deal with those as well... |
Don't forget, I'm in the newb ring. I have never had a diplomatic problem from gathering resources. All of the long term players are going to leave this area eventually - these are not my neighbours. Not to mention that with the density of people gathering here it's not like we expect *not* to be bumped. Hell, I have another player city in the square next to my capital. Who does the closest resources
"belong to" anyway?
DeathDealer89 wrote:
And now with the release of Broken lands coming, it brings the total number of possible cities 1 person can be responsible for up to 40. Not to mention if your sitting for a friend who is on vacation. Then it could be even higher. |
I agree completely. You don't even need the broken lands to be busy. I can't imagine yet the micro management skill needed to manage 10 cities, let alone 40. But my posts aren't about that: They are about us lowly newbs and our experience, which players of any age tend to lose sight of, as I think you have! Kudos to you - you are not a newb.
Edited by WeeAshley - 17 Feb 2013 at 00:17
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Deranzin
Postmaster
Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 845 |
Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 00:14 |
WeeAshley wrote:
1) No-Limit Texas Holdem Poker Minigame
So all those times I'm just waiting 10 minutes (or 3 days) for something to finish I have something to do. Of course we would be betting with in game gold. You would need table maximums and such. Putting a small dealer "rake" in the game becomes a valuable resource sink.
Think of the community it could create. Adding drama, conflict, and all kinds of potential for political chaos. Not to mention later being able to bet more lavish items.
Anyone that is better at Texas Holdem then me should not be able to play this game.
This, in part, will address the issue I have where I am excited and want to play Illy, but there is nothing to do until X is done building/researching/etc.
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Well, no offence but Illyriad is, by its definition, a game that does not hook you up on the screen full time ... it does accompany you all day with the builds and plans and stuff, BUT it demands only few minutes of your time in each visit of the open tab, so most of us are already doing something else while playing. So, imho, the DEVs taking time to create minigames might not be the best of ideas, considering how many other things critical for the game are left pending.
As for the idea of TH poker, most of those free-credit poker games end up with most people going all-in with most pairs (even a 7-2) so they are not that fun anyway.
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Brandmeister
Postmaster General
Joined: 12 Oct 2012
Location: Laoshin
Status: Offline
Points: 2396 |
Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 00:22 |
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Ashley, this is a slow paced game. If you want something interesting to work on, I recommend the Statues mystery. You need a level 7 Consulate (3h total build time) plus the advanced spy research (17h of research time). Use the published sets of coordinates to visit the statues. When you get broken inscriptions and clues, solve the mysteries yourself instead of using the cheat sheet. That will occupy several hours of your time. I enjoyed both the challenge and the reward of doing it on my own.
Other things to explore include the Temple of Reason, the Steamtastic Brewery, the Heart of Corruption, the Misted Lands and the Fortress of Shadows.
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tansiraine
Wordsmith
Joined: 14 Oct 2012
Location: pensacola FL
Status: Offline
Points: 172 |
Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 00:37 |
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Well come in to GC get to know people and socialize. There is plenty to learn from the Vets and then tend to pop up at the strangest times in GC. Now that the war is winding down GC will most likely go back to a fun place and a place to get some great info on the game
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WeeAshley
Wordsmith
Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 173 |
Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 00:38 |
Deranzin wrote:
Well, no offence but Illyriad is, by its definition, a game that does not hook you up on the screen full time ... it does accompany you all day with the builds and plans and stuff, BUT it demands only few minutes of your time in each visit of the open tab, so most of us are already doing something else while playing. So, imho, the DEVs taking time to create minigames might not be the best of ideas, considering how many other things critical for the game are left pending.
As for the idea of TH poker, most of those free-credit poker games end up with most people going all-in with most pairs (even a 7-2) so they are not that fun anyway.
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No offence taken. My brilliant Texas Holdem idea was pretty decisively shot down. Mainly because I agree that there are lots of other priorities. I think it could work way down the road - when I'm in the ground and my children inherit my accounts.
If something like this is ever implemented I think the key is using existing in game resources to bet. Because you're right, I can't play on those free sites with everyone shoving all in every round.
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DeathDealer89
Postmaster
Joined: 04 Jan 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 944 |
Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 00:40 |
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Well if you have that many problems with this game, try and different one.
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WeeAshley
Wordsmith
Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 173 |
Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 00:40 |
tansiraine wrote:
Well come in to GC get to know people and socialize. There is plenty to learn from the Vets and then tend to pop up at the strangest times in GC. Now that the war is winding down GC will most likely go back to a fun place and a place to get some great info on the game |
I play around in GC from time to time. It seems fine enough for a global chat, but I wouldn't say its engaging (yet?). Most of the time general chats are full of arguments won by whoever gives the wittiest one-liner mixed in with some poor english and trolling attempts. I'm not saying there isn't the occasional break through - but I dunno - GC doesn't seem to me to be what to pin the new user experience on.
I'll be more open to it going forward though.
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WeeAshley
Wordsmith
Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 173 |
Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 00:45 |
DeathDealer89 wrote:
Well if you have that many problems with this game, try and different one. |
Thanks for the suggestion DeathDealer89! I hope I didn't offend you. I hate it when people go through my points one by one and refute them. That wasn't my intent, I really appreciated your post.
I like Illy. My problem isn't that I don't like Illy. My problem is that this game is so damn exciting with so many different possibilities that I want to dive in and play it, get involved, do some stuff. But I can't.
Take a game like Eve-Online - another game that relies on skills researched over time. Out of the gate you can still fight, trade, gather resources, and build in quantities that are well balanced between your level of skill and your level of reward.
Illyriad doesn't have that balance yet. The thing that holds you through the first while is the promise of it's potential, not the actualization of it's play.
Hope we can come up with some awesome ideas to address that!
Edited by WeeAshley - 17 Feb 2013 at 00:45
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WeeAshley
Wordsmith
Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 173 |
Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 01:08 |
Brandmeister wrote:
Ashley, this is a slow paced game. If you want something interesting to work on, I recommend the Statues mystery. You need a level 7 Consulate (3h total build time) plus the advanced spy research (17h of research time). Use the published sets of coordinates to visit the statues. When you get broken inscriptions and clues, solve the mysteries yourself instead of using the cheat sheet. That will occupy several hours of your time. I enjoyed both the challenge and the reward of doing it on my own.
Other things to explore include the Temple of Reason, the Steamtastic Brewery, the Heart of Corruption, the Misted Lands and the Fortress of Shadows. |
Heya Brand!
Don't get me wrong; I'm not complaining. I'm probably through the worst of the new player experience now anyways. I was hoping that this thread would be less about me and more about ideas in general. Specifically for the new player experience (since that's the only experience I have!)
I'm not attacking Illyriad. I want to make it better! The new user experience is a key part of the game that most people tend to forget rather quickly. I'm here for the long haul, I just want to start giving a little back right away. (Not to mention, I'm not managing 10 cities - just 2 - one is a day old, so I have all kinds of time while waiting for these progress bars!)
I'm actually just over half way through the "Steamteastic Brewery" Mystery. It's the only mystery I can speak on. I have 10 spies that I send out all over Elgea. It takes about 2 to 3 days for them to get to a location and return. These kick-ass uber spies it gives you are awesome.
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903 |
Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 02:43 |
Uh, I think you mean the Human Statues mystery. I'm glad you're enjoying it though.
In terms of the new player experience, I think a lot depends on the alliance that new players join. If you have an alliance that's active and doing stuff, then you might be less bored early on.
I think what you are saying is that it shouldn't be dependent on the alliance one is in, that there should be game mechanics that engage new players rather than depending on the community to do so.
I am somewhat ambivalent about this. On the one hand, increasing player retention is a good thing. On the other hand, one of the charms of Illy, at least for me, has been the degree to which the developers create a world and then leave it to us to create a culture (or cultures) within it. Essentially, we as players, individually and in groups, define how Illy is "supposed" to be played -- thus creating numerous interpretations of the game and ways of interacting with it.
I think having too much for new players to do could take away from the ... spaciousness ... that I think is so important (not space on the map, but space to define what the game is).
In many ways this requirement to define the game makes Illy much more demanding than other games of its type, but I see that -- and not particular game mechanics -- as essential to the depth that Illy is. We don't get a blueprint for a sandcastle when we join Illy -- we're given a box of sand that we can do with what we will.
I am guessing that there will be numerous people who want to dissect this post to claim that I am advocating for this or that way of playing or denigrating this or that way of seeing the game. Others will claim that there is only one valid and legitimate way of seeing Illyriad and that to contend anything else is just misguided. I would like to politely request that people remember that the original post deals with how new players experience the game, and ask people to focus on ideas and principles rather than on personalities.
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