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Direct Link To This Post Topic: On Dwarven Druids war declaration on Harmless?
    Posted: 15 Oct 2012 at 22:33

I am sorry for posting this so late, but the war declaration happened late at night my time and although I spend too much time playing Illyriad, I do have a life.

The Dwarven Druids, currently ranked alliance number 42 if you look at population, has declared war on the alliance that is by a fair margin number one in population. We have not done this because we believe that we will "win" by doing that, or because we think that we will take a step closer to "controlling the server" by doing that. We are declaring war to keep playing the game as we see it, without fearing attacks for irrational reasons by larger players than ourselves.

Before taking the decision to declare war, believe it or not, I read the something like
38 pages of the "Rhyagelle Responds To Absaroke Aggression" thread (now that number has increased to 55), because it seems to be the most official forum regarding this conflict and both sides have posted their arguments there at some length. I have reached the understanding before and the forum posts by Harmless? players confirms my view that Harmless? is playing a wargame while we in Consone are playing a game of building and collaboration.

I feel strongly that the reason Harmless? declared war on our confederate Invictus was that Harmless? fears that of the growth in playing a game of building and collaboration will take away the importance of the wargame that they are playing and thus reduce the control they feel and their “winning” of the game as they play it. The size and growth rate of Consone is obviously a danger signal to a wargame player, and although we have never done anything aggressive to the wargamers, we have always been accommodating and striving to make peaceful and rational decisions and agreements; a wargamer will not understand what a builder-game player has as a motive, and they turned even more frightened by our lack of aggression.

Dwarven Druids have declared war on Harmless? because Harmless? declared war on an alliance that we are confederated with, and according to both Harmless? wargame code of honour and our building game code of honour that is what you do, it is the default action. But there is more than a default action of protecting a confederate alliance from an unwarranted or at least un-proportional attack. We have declared war on Harmless? at this instance because we believe that if we do not stand up now and defend our way of playing the game by peaceful building, then the next alliance that grows big from successful application of those ideals will be the next target for attack – or worse, the game might deteriorate towards one of many similar wargame clones and the joy of building, exploring and seeing the world unfold into exciting details and events will be lost in a mist of battles. (Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy the occasional wargame, it is just that that is not my reason for playing Illyriad.)

Thus, for those in Harmless? that understand the concept of the builder game that the bulk of Consone players are playing, if you just take the time to read our posts and declarations with that in mind, you will find that we do not challenge Harmless? as an alliance, we just want to be able to play our somewhat different game in our part of the world – the two parts could indeed overlap almost completely and we would only very rarely notice, unless you choose to keep regarding us as a competitor for power in your wargame. We are not a competitor, and will not be, unless you force us to compete – we might not be the best at it, but we are pretty persistent, and by the way the game is developing there will be more of us coming in, so you better get used to us if you want to keep your wargame up and running as well.

May your beards grow, and your wisdom!

/Nesse, Great Archdruid

 

PS.

Peace negotiations should preferentially be directed through Jasche, as the head of Consone.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2012 at 22:51

What brave soldiers, selflessely throwing their own cities are risk of military agression to defeat those horrible players in Harmless!

Eternal Fire
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2012 at 02:53
I do think that in some instances the war declaration is more of a token of support/opposition, rather than an indicator of the more meaningful conflicts.  For example, I rather doubt there will be a great deal of fighting between H? and the three alliances they're at war with that have less than 10 people each.

It does make the H? diplomacy page more interesting than it was.  But so do all the new confederations.  There's just all sorts of diplomacy on there now!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2012 at 02:58
I raise my Tankard to Harmless? may your mercy not reach these people, crush Consone underfoot before you burn their world to the ground! 

Edited by Rorgash - 16 Oct 2012 at 02:59
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Nesse View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2012 at 04:30
Originally posted by ES2 ES2 wrote:

What brave soldiers, selflessely throwing their own cities are risk of military agression to defeat those horrible players in Harmless!



Do you disagree, did you not read my post or are you just expressing an anonymous but somewhat unrelated opinion?
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Brids17 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2012 at 04:49
Originally posted by Nesse Nesse wrote:

I feel strongly that the reason Harmless? declared war on our confederate Invictus was that Harmless? fears that of the growth in playing a game of building and collaboration will take away the importance of the wargame that they are playing and thus reduce the control they feel and their “winning” of the game as they play it. The size and growth rate of Consone is obviously a danger signal to a wargame player, and although we have never done anything aggressive to the wargamers, we have always been accommodating and striving to make peaceful and rational decisions and agreements; a wargamer will not understand what a builder-game player has as a motive, and they turned even more frightened by our lack of aggression.

You realize the Crowilition has exceeded H? population for far longer than the Consone was even an idea right? Not to mention we've been neutral in just about ever war that has ever taken place in illy. I'm not really for or against either side, I think it's great that there's finally a really big war but your reasoning of why Harmless? is getting into it seems flawed. 


Edited by Brids17 - 16 Oct 2012 at 04:50
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2012 at 06:06
Originally posted by Brids17 Brids17 wrote:

Originally posted by Nesse Nesse wrote:

I feel strongly that the reason Harmless? declared war on our confederate Invictus was that Harmless? fears that of the growth in playing a game of building and collaboration will take away the importance of the wargame that they are playing and thus reduce the control they feel and their “winning” of the game as they play it. The size and growth rate of Consone is obviously a danger signal to a wargame player, and although we have never done anything aggressive to the wargamers, we have always been accommodating and striving to make peaceful and rational decisions and agreements; a wargamer will not understand what a builder-game player has as a motive, and they turned even more frightened by our lack of aggression.

You realize the Crowilition has exceeded H? population for far longer than the Consone was even an idea right? Not to mention we've been neutral in just about ever war that has ever taken place in illy. I'm not really for or against either side, I think it's great that there's finally a really big war but your reasoning of why Harmless? is getting into it seems flawed.

As far as I can figure it, the Crows must be a special situation, and I can only think of a few possible scenarios as to why H? doesn't react to them like they do to Consone:

1. They don't consider the Crows a threat.  As you say, the Crows tend to stay neutral, for whatever reasons.  The obvious options that come to mind are excellent diplomats and/or dubious strategic military strength.  Alternatively, a low capacity for sympathy.
2. The Crows have already been pacified.  I don't know anything about H?/Crow history, but if H? does indeed choose their diplomatic relationships carefully, and the Crows all have long-standing NAPs with them...well, maybe the Crows already tread lightly around H?.
3. H?'s assertions about Consone containing strong anti-H? sentiment are valid and Consone is the exception to the rule, not the Crows.  I mean... are you still paranoid if someone really is out to get you?  In this scenario, H? might want to think about getting some PR upgrades.

I get the impression, though, that power-blocs have been consistently growing over time, and that prior to Consone, the Crows were fairly unique in their confederacy size and cohesion (assuming it's ever actually been put to the test, I mean).  So it's probably a waste of time trying to draw conclusions about H?'s confederacy metagame from a very limited set of data.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2012 at 07:35
We need more threads. There are 241 different alliances and the first page is each guilds thoughts on the war which takes away 8-10 of those... so we have the potential to make about 230 more threads..

Each more or less determining that the other side is full of communist mutant spies! The Computer does not like such things and its best to see your happiness officer promptly. If no happiness officer is readily available then be sure to visit your nearest ultraviolet citizen. Thanks.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2012 at 07:54
Darmon you might be onto something there mate, good luck with discovering more.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2012 at 16:39
Originally posted by Mr Damage Mr Damage wrote:

Darmon you might be onto something there mate, good luck with discovering more.

As I was writing that, I almost hoped I was just very tired.  I realize I wasn't the one to bring up the Crows, and it was more restrained than some of the current conversations happening around here...but in that moment, I felt like EF, poking their nest with a stick.

I do kind of feel like this war might set some precedents for confederate-level diplomacy.  I mean, does anyone realize that this war involves a third of the server's population?  (Roughly 63 out of 190 million.)
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