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Aelfric
Greenhorn Joined: 05 Jun 2010 Status: Offline Points: 76 |
Topic: New Units: Land-based Troop TransportsPosted: 24 Sep 2010 at 16:14 |
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I know we're getting ships to travel across bodies of water, but what about land-based transports to carry your troops so they would arrive sooner at their destination?
The transports would have high maintenance costs in the form of gold and basic resources to replace "worn out parts" to justify their benefits. The transports have limited capacity, i.e. 600 troops or 4 siege engines per transport (the numbers are for illustration purpose). You'd still be able to transport a large army with siege engines attached if you assign enough number of transports to this army. For instance, if the army consists of 1,200 troops and 4 siege engines, three transport units are required. Each race should have different transport: Orc: Giant beasts (if you played Borderlands, the concept is similar to Rakkhive) Dwarf: Airships or zeppelin Human: Some sort of mobile fortress (found a Warhammer version of it, but can't seem to find the website anymore) Elf: Not sure, probably just a speed buff spell at extremely high mana cost? Elves are not so keen in technology anyway. Edited by Aelfric - 24 Sep 2010 at 16:41 |
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bartimeus
Forum Warrior Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Location: Right behind U Status: Offline Points: 222 |
Posted: 24 Sep 2010 at 17:53 |
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Elves could get a magical time freeze, stopping everyone's unit movement and production for a day or so.
It would cost 0 mana because everyone knows we wouldn't abuse of this capacity.
Honestly, Zeppelin?
I take it you are a dwarve.
This would make you able to cross water far too easely.
Has much as I like flying ships, I don't think it would fit too well in the illyriad world.
If you make transport of an army too easy, the environment doesn't matter as much anymore.
Mobile fortress? I find that its a bit ridiculous as they couldn't possibly be faster than cavalry.
I think this game is fantasy/medieval oriented, airship and mobile fortress is more steampunk than anything else.
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Bartimeus, your very best friend.
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HonoredMule
Postmaster General Joined: 05 Mar 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1650 |
Posted: 24 Sep 2010 at 18:58 |
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There's room for airships in fantasy settings. Overdoing it might push into the domain of steampunk, but steampunk is actually a sub-genre of fantasy, and true steampunk has more to do with steam-powered computers than airships (the whole concept being predicated on Charles Babbage getting his Difference Engine built in his own time.).
As far as Illyriad is concerned, there ought to be room for air and subterranean activity without losing the value of rivers. Simply limit carrying capacity substantially and land/water travel retains its pre-eminent importance. We've already heard that there will eventually be air units as well as mythic beasts. And the Age of Wonders series has demonstrated how it could all work very well: air, ground, water, and underground could become different terrain layers with fixed access points between layers. Then all the pathfinding necessary to hold/control land or air still work, including the ability to intercept and shoot down units passing over your airspace--making air or water travel very risky without sufficient investment into escorts even if carrying capacity is high. Your Zepplin super-carrier just crashed, taking 1,000 elite infantry and 4 commanders to their graves without ever lifting a sword. But they got there very fast without paying the bridge toll... |
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Ethelion
New Poster Joined: 16 Sep 2010 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 34 |
Posted: 24 Sep 2010 at 19:26 |
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Fixed access points for subterranean locations (i.e. holes, caves) or water (i.e. shoreline) makes since, but air locations shouldn't be constrained.
While I'm not outright opposed to airships in Illyriad, I'd prefer the flavor of air travel to be more mythical and less technological (i.e. dragons, gryphons, harpies, pegasi). They would naturally limit capacity. The need to have a near one to one mapping with ground units (i.e. make an infantry unit into a dragonrider by adding a dragon) would balance the cost with the benefit.
As for ground based transport, I think it would fit in with the world to just be able to mount the whole army on horses. It would work something like this:
When on the "Send Army" screen, there would be a check box allowing you to mount your army, which would impact the speed with which it would move. It would require Horses = Army Size - Mounted Units. Since the foot units are not trained to fight on horseback, the extra horses wouldn't impact the outcome of the battle. If your army returned/survived, the horses would stay with the army until entering your town at which point they would return to your supply. If your army were eliminated, the horses would remain with the victor.
So you would have the option to make moving your army fast, but it would be costly and potentially end up gifting a lot of horses to your enemy.
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Zangi
Forum Warrior Joined: 15 Jul 2010 Status: Offline Points: 295 |
Posted: 24 Sep 2010 at 20:01 |
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Perhaps the transports carry the slowest units. Especially when you have more troops then transport space and you have a mixed army.
Ground Transport Space Siege - 1-2 Mounted - 50 (They will go SLOWER, but the last units to place into the Transport.) Foot - 200 (Jamming as many troops as possible into as little space as possible, no sitting space. Uncomfortable.) Speeds Human - 10 Orc - 9 Dwarf - 10 Elf - 9 (Some foot units will go slower.) Will go slower in some terrain and faster in others, depending on race. |
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HonoredMule
Postmaster General Joined: 05 Mar 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1650 |
Posted: 24 Sep 2010 at 22:12 |
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I think you need to consider what I said in a more literal context, as it would have to be when actually implemented as (program) logic. Air access locations are constrained to the place you launch (your city) and the place you land. Also, access to air is an airship-only thing, making it in ways far more constrained than the paths between various other layers. Otherwise, air units could intercept cavalry or ships, which is taking it too far and complicates both pathfinding and battle resolution. How do you find the interception point between two disjoint graphs, and what should a cavalry unit's attack vs airship and vice-versa be exactly? And what about blockages? Some should penetrate the air layer while others do not (i.e. mountains slow land but block air, bridges block water, unbridged water blocks land, etc.). Airships must be able to touch land only, not arbitrarily become land or water-based vessels to get around obstacles, and a clean implementation of obstacle knowledge shouldn't require checking for content in other layers but not this one. Proper separation of concerns is aided by separation of the data in the first place. All these issues are dealt with by operating on the concept that there are no access points for air except two special per-trip ones: where you launch, and where you land. Save for these, you have your own disjoint graph in which you can map your path, possibly taking advantage of trade winds, avoiding storms, and even intercepting or avoiding other units already in the air. Things get most exciting on any layer when you introduce the concept that at a unit/army level "there ain't room for the both of us."
I like this idea. A lot. |
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some random guy
Forum Warrior Joined: 26 Aug 2010 Location: saturn Status: Offline Points: 378 |
Posted: 25 Sep 2010 at 00:41 |
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ok. this is what I see in the way of land/air/underground type travel:
land:
same units as now
ground transport:
humans:
wagons or carts.
dwarves:
land sailers (basically a cart with a sail on it)
elfs:
land based dragons
orcs:
trolls pulling sledges
air:
elfs:
giant birds
humans:
gliders
dwarves:
hot air balloons
orcs:
flung from a catapult (I cant think of anything better at the moment)
underground:
I really don't think that there should be an underground, for these reasons:
1: it will be hard to figure out where to put the best tunnel entrances to benefit all players.
2: large armies could simply cut off all entrances for newer players, resulting in less fun and more inactivity.
3: who wants to have armies getting lost in the dark without a light?
in conclusion, land units should still be the dominant units, but there should be 1 type of air unit to add another dimension to the game. also aircraft carriers would be
AWESOME!!
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Soon, very soon, my name will become synonymous with chicken alfredo.... mmm.... chicken alfredo....
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HonoredMule
Postmaster General Joined: 05 Mar 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1650 |
Posted: 25 Sep 2010 at 01:35 |
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If you've ever played Age of Wonders, you'll have a good idea of what I'm describing here. In that world, underground isn't just a network of tunnels with two or three entrances/exits each. It's basically a whole new level of "world" with rivers and cities littered throughout. Being underground only makes it a little more confining, similar to how mountain ranges would
somewhat block land movement--even non-cleared areas can still be tunneled by dwarves, with those tunnels eventually collapsing if not maintained.
In such an environment, blockading entrance/exit points would require a whole lot of power, as you'd be opposing everyone in the area above and below who wish to trade or conduct warfare between levels and need that passage to do so. |
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some random guy
Forum Warrior Joined: 26 Aug 2010 Location: saturn Status: Offline Points: 378 |
Posted: 25 Sep 2010 at 01:53 |
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ah. as I have not played "age of wonders" i wasn't sure what you meant
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Soon, very soon, my name will become synonymous with chicken alfredo.... mmm.... chicken alfredo....
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Aelfric
Greenhorn Joined: 05 Jun 2010 Status: Offline Points: 76 |
Posted: 25 Sep 2010 at 02:19 |
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HM, I haven't played it either but I could draw my imagination from playing Heroes of Might and Magic series.
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