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Slish
New Poster Joined: 21 Sep 2011 Location: Groningen Status: Offline Points: 25 |
Topic: Military Unit stats questionsPosted: 28 Oct 2011 at 03:03 |
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I have been looking over the unit stats, their offensive/defensive values and their costs.
My source is this:
http://illyriad.honoredsoft.com/wiki/Military_Chart
I came up with 2 main questions:
1.
Why build spearmen? Their only good value is cavalry defense but archer units have good defensive values in all areas, even cavalry def isn't much difference?
I noticed that the stats of spearman units in general are very low in stats (I guess because their costs is relatively low). So I wondered..
2.
Some second tier units are less valuable/efficient compared to their costs?
For example, longbowmen (second tier human ranged) do have about same value as archers (first tier human ranged) if you divide it by gold maintenance costs. And if you divide it by their raw construction costs the first-tier unit is even better!?
Edited by Slish - 28 Oct 2011 at 03:06 |
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Manannan
Postmaster Joined: 22 Mar 2011 Location: Mystical Mists Status: Offline Points: 576 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 03:19 |
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1) You are looking at the wrong units defence value. Look at all 4 troop types for attack and defence! It's interesting calculations... trust me!
2) You may want to recalculate that for upkeep to numbers... it make interesting reading... trust me! Be sure to adjust the figures for min and max market prices when calculating costs. Attack and defence are two completely different things! *cough* hint *cough*
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Doesn't look good... doesn't look bad either!
"Manananananananananan, so long Sir, and thanks for all the fish." ~ St.Jude |
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fluffy
Forum Warrior Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Status: Offline Points: 335 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 03:35 |
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HonoredMule
Postmaster General Joined: 05 Mar 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1650 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 04:38 |
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Keep in mind also that T2 units often provide better stats per unit of production time. Even with all other things being equal or slightly worse, it can be an important strategic factor.
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"Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now."
- HonoredMule |
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Olek
Greenhorn Joined: 21 Jun 2011 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 46 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 05:23 |
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If I understand this correctly, if 1000 of my knights attack 1000 of my pikemen, we are looking at;
65000 attack for the knights Vs 29000 defense for the pikemen, open ground, both nub commanders.
If this is the way it's calculated, then somebody needs to do a bit of reading, as sending Cav into pikemen is suicidal, I don't want to hear any stories about the Cavalry "Could" ride around to the flank, as "could" is every single engagement by this method.
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Silent/Steadfast
Postmaster Joined: 03 Jun 2011 Location: Pacific County Status: Offline Points: 553 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 06:01 |
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Olek: the very idea of cavalry is to attack on plains, where flanking is a VERY viable strategy. Also, spear units tend to be unable to find strategic areas(hills) on plains. Sending cavalry charging up a hill to attack a well prepared division of pikemen IS suicide, sending the cavalry to attack suddenly on the flank of the same pikes on plains isn't. Terrain is the defining factor. Also, we have to remember that even when the spearmen are well situated, cavalry simply inflict damage through momentum.
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"Semantics are no protection from a 50 Megaton Thermonuclear Stormcrow."-Yggdrassil (June 21, 2011 6:48 PM)
"SCROLL ya donut!" Urgorr The Old (September 1, 2011 4:08 PM) |
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Aurordan
Postmaster Player Council - Ambassador Joined: 21 Sep 2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 982 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 06:10 |
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Another thing to remember is that you're sending 1000 heavily armored men who have been trained for battle from a very young age and spend all their time fighting or preparing to fight against 1000 guys who are pretty decent with a polearm. They don't need to be mounted to be more than twice as effective.
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Olek
Greenhorn Joined: 21 Jun 2011 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 46 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 06:43 |
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Not a chance, you picture this as if your controlling the Cavalry while the spear units just stand there facing north, never heard of a
Circular schiltrons? or a Rectilinear schiltrons, these pikemen where well drilled to manoever on the battlefield, they were all but immune to Cavalry, there is also a great difference between a spear unit and a Pike unit, and momentum will not help trying to charge through 5-6 ranks of layered pike points.
Terrain gives an advantage to a commander who knows how to use it, so it is not the terrain, but the ability of the commander to deploy his forces effectively in various types of terrain.
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Olek
Greenhorn Joined: 21 Jun 2011 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 46 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 07:01 |
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Crossbow armed peasants could kill a knight who had trained all his life, which is why they were outlawed in many nations during the medieval period.
Don't make the mistake of thinking knights were the princess saving heroes of the age, they were the rich and Noble, usually the one's who would benefit from the wars.
And don't write off the Spear or pike units of the period, the Swiss pikemen, the German Landsknechts, the Scotts, these are trained and drilled Pikemen, not spear armed rabble.
And you are right Aurordan, many knights did end up fighting on foot, as they would be more effective against the Pike/spear than mounted, but then all they had to worry about were the longbows and crossbows.
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Aurordan
Postmaster Player Council - Ambassador Joined: 21 Sep 2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 982 |
Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 08:19 |
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Including apparently Illyriad, because only shady races like dwarves use them. Ironically the superior longbows are a dime a dozen apparently.
Cause they were good at it.
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