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Elmindra 
Forum Warrior
Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 464 |
 Topic: Military Tweeks
Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 19:38 |
After experiencing a fair share of Illy combat, I do believe there are some fairly major flaws in combat.
First off, I think the terrain modifiers should be increased. I personally don't believe heavy cavalry should be able to kill a unit like archers on a large mountain with the effectiveness that they currently have, let alone spearmen. Instead of penalties and bonuses of 30%, maybe changing to 50% or more on the more extreme terrain (large mountain, heavy forest, buildings) and leaving the 30% for the minor versions (small mountain, light forest, large hills). As for cavalry on plains, I actually think they are fairly balanced at current numbers.
Not that I don't like heavy cavalry, it is just a shame that most players build nothing but T2 cavalry and archers. It would be nice to see a little more diversity, such as elves actually needing to invest into some infantry, or dwarves needing some spears to supplement their swords.
As for spearmen, I think the base training time on them needs some adjustment. When deciding whether to train spears or archers, the archers usually win because of the superior defense rating and that they train at the same speed. I know that a town can support more T2 spears than T2 archers based on gold per hour upkeep, but they can't produce an equivalent number in the same amount of time. I think a base training time of 7.2ph on the T2 spears, and 9ph on the T1 spears along with spears getting better terrain bonuses vs cavalry and such would actually make it a worthwhile decision.
There is a fair bit of situational readiness needed in Illy combat, but all to often the player with umpteen million T2 cav wins the day regardless of strategy.
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Darkwords
Postmaster General
Joined: 23 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1005 |
Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 20:10 |
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Considering that T2 cav have such useless def considering their maintenance and recruitment costs and are purely only good for attack troops I feel that things are still balanced. Strengthening every other troop whilst weakening cav would not help balance combat it would disbalance it.
However if T2 Cav were made more cheaply and had maintenance costs equal to archers and swords, then I could see that leveling combat a bit, however I think that making everything fair and even, only removes the need for strategy in a game.
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903 |
Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 20:15 |
I thought having umpteen million t2 cav WAS a strategy?
I mean, not one I've tried, but it's a strategy.
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geofrey
Postmaster General
Joined: 31 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1013 |
Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 21:07 |
An increase to crafted gear would be a more efficient way of balancing combat.
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DeathDealer89
Postmaster
Joined: 04 Jan 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 944 |
Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 21:54 |
To late to change anything like what you are talking about.
That would be like changing the rules in the middle of a football game. Leave it as is, if you change it you will just get the people who liked it how it was complaining about why it was changed.
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Elmindra
Forum Warrior
Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 464 |
Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 23:30 |
I understand what you are saying Darkwords, but changing terrain bonuses does nothing to change the fact that cavalry are still horrible at defense. The problem in the game as I see it is there is very little reason to be diversified with all 4 troop types. An elf rarely makes spears since the Trueshot can be trained at the same speed and is an all around better defender. Since cavalry is still king on almost any terrain type other than buildings, it is still the primary offensive unit. Honestly, T2 spears should kill cavalry at a 1:1 ratio or better in mountains and forests. Swordsmen should be a better attack option than cavalry when attacking forests. Problem is that they are not. Most elves are pure trueshots with a few cav towns. This I see as a problem, because the units are neither balanced properly or powerful enough in certain circumstances.
And as for changing things, that is something that constantly happens in Illy. The game isn't the same since I joined, and I doubt it will be the same once the new magic update is implemented.
Edited by Elmindra - 28 Jan 2013 at 23:31
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KillerPoodle
Postmaster General
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1853 |
Posted: 29 Jan 2013 at 06:41 |
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Improving Bows and Spears by reducing cav effectiveness would make sieges easier to prosecute which will make a whole section of the game's population throw up their hands in despair and threaten to quit.
Not saying it's a bad idea - just predicting the response.
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"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM
"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill
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KillerPoodle
Postmaster General
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1853 |
Posted: 29 Jan 2013 at 06:42 |
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FWIW - making a small change to T2 spears so they produce a bit faster than bows would be about all you would need to do.
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"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM
"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903 |
Posted: 29 Jan 2013 at 08:25 |
 KillerPoodle wrote:
Improving Bows and Spears by reducing cav effectiveness would make sieges easier to prosecute which will make a whole section of the game's population throw up their hands in despair and threaten to quit.
Not saying it's a bad idea - just predicting the response.
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Would be harder to break siege camps with cav. On the other hand, it would be harder to use cav to clear the city of troops, either to prevent sally forth or in preparation for storm to raze or capture.
Obviously it could change the outcome assuming the participants already had armies that favoured one or another type of troops, but given that people would account for this in planning their armies, I'm interested in hearing more about how this would specifically favor prosecuting sieges as opposed to defending against them. Keep in mind that I have limited experience with prosecuting sieges of active players or actively defending against siege, so I imagine there are many factors of which I am not aware.
It seems like this change would possibly change the relative weight of the importance of defending troops in a city vs. defending through attacking a siege camp. Right now it seems like by the time a city is stormed it is all but lost, and I guess questions raised by this thread include 1) what would it take to make this not be so? and 2) would that outcome be desirable in terms of game balance and overall fun factor?
Edited by Rill - 29 Jan 2013 at 08:26
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ES2
Postmaster
Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 550 |
Posted: 29 Jan 2013 at 13:59 |
Elmindra wrote:
I understand what you are saying Darkwords, but changing terrain bonuses does nothing to change the fact that cavalry are still horrible at defense. The problem in the game as I see it is there is very little reason to be diversified with all 4 troop types. An elf rarely makes spears since the Trueshot can be trained at the same speed and is an all around better defender. Since cavalry is still king on almost any terrain type other than buildings, it is still the primary offensive unit. Honestly, T2 spears should kill cavalry at a 1:1 ratio or better in mountains and forests. Swordsmen should be a better attack option than cavalry when attacking forests. Problem is that they are not. Most elves are pure trueshots with a few cav towns. This I see as a problem, because the units are neither balanced properly or powerful enough in certain circumstances.
And as for changing things, that is something that constantly happens in Illy. The game isn't the same since I joined, and I doubt it will be the same once the new magic update is implemented.
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This^^
Not much call to train the other unit types if the few such as Cavalry excel in nearly all fields.
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