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SugarFree 
Forum Warrior
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 350 |
 Posted: 09 Feb 2012 at 10:20 |
how pointless this tread already is.
instead of a serious conversation about land claims it has come to this.
i wonder how people keep hearing about the so "mature community" this game boosts.
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Darkwords
Postmaster General
Joined: 23 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1005 |
Posted: 09 Feb 2012 at 10:29 |
 SugarFree wrote:
how pointless this tread already is.
instead of a serious conversation about land claims it has come to this.
i wonder how people keep hearing about the so "mature community" this game boosts.
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Do you honestly expect a serious debate on a subject like this.
You will find that almost all long-term players here find the idea of land claims pretty rediculous, the land belongs to who-ever works it and holds it. We generally expect a level of respect on land bordering our cities as this may become our sovereign land in future, however beyond that Elgean land is a global commons.
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SugarFree
Forum Warrior
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 350 |
Posted: 09 Feb 2012 at 10:34 |
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edit*
Edited by SugarFree - 09 Feb 2012 at 10:35
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SugarFree
Forum Warrior
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 350 |
Posted: 09 Feb 2012 at 10:35 |
Darkwords wrote:
Do you honestly expect a serious debate on a subject like this. 
You will find that almost all long-term players here find the idea of land claims pretty rediculous, the land belongs to who-ever works it and holds it. We generally expect a level of respect on land bordering our cities as this may become our sovereign land in future, however beyond that Elgean land is a global commons.
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if you take a look at the world-map, you will see established alliances find land "claims" to be all other than ridiculous.
on the other hand, it all depends on what you understand under land claim.
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Albatross
Postmaster General
Joined: 11 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1118 |
Posted: 09 Feb 2012 at 12:23 |
Sovereignty is the recognised currency for claiming land. I suggest that those wishing to claim a wider field do so by peppering their chosen area with a loose grid of sov claims. These should be visible on a map, players can find out ownership by hovering, and claims will have been made in areas genuinely close to existing cities.
Any meta-gaming about hand-wavy land claims is really just showmanship, and is trying to lay claim without the resource (sov) to do so. Simply drawing a metaphorical border on the map, enclosing vast swathes of land in the hope of moving preferred players' cities in ... I'll let people discuss how that should be done, but I personally believe that nothing carries weight unless actual in-game claims have been made.
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SugarFree
Forum Warrior
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 350 |
Posted: 09 Feb 2012 at 12:27 |
Albatross wrote:
Sovereignty is the recognised currency for claiming land. I suggest that those wishing to claim a wider field do so by peppering their chosen area with a loose grid of sov claims. These should be visible on a map, players can find out ownership by hovering, and claims will have been made in areas genuinely close to existing cities.
Any meta-gaming about hand-wavy land claims is really just showmanship, and is trying to lay claim without the resource (sov) to do so. Simply drawing a metaphorical border on the map, enclosing vast swathes of land in the hope of moving preferred players' cities in ... I'll let people discuss how that should be done, but I personally believe that nothing carries weight unless actual in-game claims have been made.
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you are delusional.
the resource to claim land is not sov, it's military power.
you can sov as much as you want, if someone with the power to back his claim up shows up, sov will not prevent him from settling there .
sov is (from what i understand so far) a fancy lawn. it will not keep people from stomping all over it.
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PurpleRain
Wordsmith
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Location: Wales, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 180 |
Posted: 09 Feb 2012 at 12:32 |
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You have all made such a mistake, not one of you have mentioned a flag...I have a flag *pops a flag into Elgea, the oceans....the air...in a javelin sort of throw...look out below!! Into the cookies, the toilets EVERYTHING!! muahahahahaha Illy is mine! *looks at the devs...looks at her flags..hides flags behind her back*
Sorry couldnt resist, on a more serious note, I respect town boundaries, and for my own peace and quiet I would never settle on anothers door step or make claims to their sov. Out of curiosity how many people do actually regularly genuinely argue over sov anyways?
Also I understand the want to "power block" but what with future changes that SC discussed in the interview. Why would you want all your players lumped together anyways, I know the military power this could bring, but in times of peace and tournament, you could be really stuck if there are no tourney spots near you and possibly missing out on other aspects of the game. When certain things are going to be obtained in the north or south don't you want a little spread across elgea? Whilst I know this is a nightmare for caravans and reinforcements, I sometimes wonder if folk attempt to "claim land" for the sake of it, by the time many have decided to stake a claim they already have many players in the area already, so really whats the point in drawing the negative attention (that TMM brought to land claims) to yourself and your alliance...for the sake of a couple of extra neighbours, who actually could become very handy for trade or into your alliance some day, is land claiming really worth the hassle?
Edited by PurpleRain - 09 Feb 2012 at 12:35
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SugarFree
Forum Warrior
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 350 |
Posted: 09 Feb 2012 at 12:35 |
PurpleRain wrote:
Also I understand the want to "power block" but what with future changes that SC discussed in the interview. Why would you want all your players lumped together anyways, when certain things are going to be obtained in the north or south don't you want a little spread across elgea? Whilst I know this is a nightmare for caravans and reinforcements, I sometimes wonder if folk attempt to "claim land" for the sake of it, by the time many have decided to stake a claim they already have many players in the area already, so really whats the point in drawing the negative attention (that TMM brought to land claims) to yourself and your alliance...for the sake of a couple of extra neighbours, who actually could become very handy for trade or into your alliance some day, is land claiming really worth the hassle?
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cause it's not a bad thing in the first place? it's about How you do it.
this general attitude kills a lot of the fun this game could be.
Edit* it seems you can actually move your towns around in this game, so why the hassle in the first place?
Edited by SugarFree - 09 Feb 2012 at 12:38
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Albatross
Postmaster General
Joined: 11 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1118 |
Posted: 09 Feb 2012 at 12:37 |
SugarFree wrote:
you are delusional.
the resource to claim land is not sov, it's military power.
you can sov as much as you want, if someone with the power to back his claim up shows up, sov will not prevent him from settling there .
sov is (from what i understand so far) a fancy lawn. it will not keep people from stomping all over it.
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I'm not at all delusional :o) I think you're
mostly correct about Sov: yes, armies can settle, but not much else. If they try to take Sov from the player's city, then they are fighting for the right to exploit the square's resources (to make Sov buildings, and the res needed to hold power). That's what land is for: not a pretty lawn, but the opportunity to make more stuff. Hint: If you use the your advanced buildings, you'll be able to use Sov 'properly'.
(edit: fixed quote mark-up)
Edited by Albatross - 09 Feb 2012 at 12:44
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Albatross
Postmaster General
Joined: 11 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1118 |
Posted: 09 Feb 2012 at 13:08 |
Here's an example of how Sov is not a fancy lawn... Say I build a city, then put sov around it, and make 20 buildings, most of them to level 2, the closest ones to level 5, and some really useful outlying squares at L1. Say I build this city to produce lots of resources, and stretch my capability out so that I'm dependent on the production that the Sov enables to maintain the food/gold/research balance.
If an alliance wishes to protest to me about something, then they can send armies to camp on my lawn, under threat to fight for sovereignty over the square. All they need to do is 'Claim Sovereignty' on that land, and I'd have to come out fighting to stop my city (if I'm using the Sov for basic res production) or my advanced resource production from crumbling away.
So the above is a practical and valid example of what true land claims are about, and how they can subtly and materially affect the balance of power. Of course, it might be easier at the moment to just send in the catapults for a city wipeout (not always ideal, as it could escalate into multi-alliance warfare).
Edited by Albatross - 09 Feb 2012 at 13:09
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Land Claims