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asr View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2013 at 13:51
Why not just forgive mistakes and give a second change, without wanting nothing return? 


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Gaius Rufius Tullus View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2013 at 14:00
@my-dear-H?-member -- Tell me, was VALAR anywhere near as fearsome as it was previously?

I do believe we are getting slightly side-tracked..

To return to topic : Why must EE be punished so harshly? Just because the treaty has not been signed does not mean that the parties involved have to keep shooting at each other both verbally and militarily (to use another WWI example) like Truman [till the last minute].

Would it at all be possible to set up different negotiators? I am sure that there are some budding young H? diplomats that would love to give this a spin, much the same for EE. 

Last question [for the minute]  Has an armistice been signed yet?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2013 at 14:07
Originally posted by realist realist wrote:

Originally posted by threefoothree threefoothree wrote:

its not a should have or could have situation.
its is simply a strong and weaker situation
EE simply is not in a place to negotiate 
and not accepting simply hurts ee members.

personally, i would take a bad deal all day long to save my members who have tons of time and in many cases real money  invested, and we have in the past several times.





It is not a strong and weaker situation.

It is a situation based on respect and beliefs.

Beliefs that made the negotiations falter.


respect and beliefs wont save ee members, nor will pride or arrogance.  if ee was stronger and could put up a fight against h? maybe they could work a better deal but that is not the case.  h? giving them any terms is h? allowing ee to survive at the kindness of their heart.
i dont see why everyone is trying to make h? into the villain here. i see h? showing compassion for ee and all the other alliances they accepted the surrender of yet wanting to  prove a point to other alliances who may want to band together to destroy h? like we have seen again and again. 



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Starry View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2013 at 14:13
We have tried armistice and it was broken by EE on one of our first attempts at peace talks.   A long history of broken promises and negotiations in bad faith have left us with no trust in HATH.  Please read my previous posts, we have not been unreasonable, we have opened peace talks based on trust and that trust was betrayed.   
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2013 at 14:28
One thing I am tired of hearing about is how Hath is the problem and his leadership is faulty. You act like the rest of EE doesn't have a say in matters. We all agreed to help our confeds just as we have agreed to not accept terms. I am sure you know this since you keep claiming to read our AC, so I am not sure why that is still an issue.

It simply is a matter of if you wish to keep threatening us with destruction then simply do it instead of talking about it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2013 at 14:33
Elmindra, we deal with the leaders of an alliance in peace negotiations, what happens in your alliance and how the members impact the decisions of the alliance is not our concern.    Ultimately it is up to the leaders of each alliance to represent the best interests and future of their alliance.    

Take a look at all the alliances we fought.    They fought hard, they fought well and they have earned our respect.    Someone once told me (won't quote her without permission) that the measure of a good leader is not how they get into war but how they act during and at the end of the war.   :D
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2013 at 14:40
Originally posted by Gaius Rufius Tullus Gaius Rufius Tullus wrote:


Last question [for the minute]  Has an armistice been signed yet?


No - we have no interest in letting EE have a breather while we try to negotiate with them for a 3rd time. 

As I said, right now they just don't seem to get the reality of their position based on words.  So it will be explained with siege engines.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2013 at 14:53
I was going to treat this topic as I have ever other topic related to the war- something to leave alone. However, I think that there is something fundamental that EE are missing, which threefootthree puts across very well in his posts earlier.
 
EE are not negotiating from a position of strength. They are not in a position to bargain and haggle over terms of the peace thread. In fact, they are no even negotiating peace. They are negotiating a surrender. And what that means is that they can choose to accept the terms as they are on the table, and try and haggle a little and get them changed slightly (and slightly means losing 30 cities instead of 40), or they can choose to fight on, lose a few more cities and then face exactly the same situation in a few months time- except to a greater degree. I'm fine with that.
 
What they should not expect is to go through these negotiations and come out untouched. Harmless can offer whatever they want, but in the end they don't need to be accepted. The Coalition could crush EE with relative ease. Hathaldir should not delude himself into thinking that he is going to come out of these peace terms with no reprisals.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2013 at 14:55
losing 1 city is fair i think- there is a change that the city you lose isn't at good place anyway. 
2 billion gold - good

good terms for a third change
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2013 at 15:39
I am so tired of all this
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