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Yeesha D'ni View Drop Down
Greenhorn
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Points: 73 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 23:55
Originally posted by WeeAshley WeeAshley wrote:

Originally posted by Yeesha D'ni Yeesha D'ni wrote:

@ gameplayer.... if you like it or not. Humans are playing this interactive game, humans are shaping this sandbox. What makes us human? What's the base of human interaction?

It is.... :  rules.
Having watched all 3 seasons of Star Trek:TOS, I'm not convinced that what makes us human is rules.  If Captain James Tiberius Kirk has taught us anything it's that to win you have to break the rules (Kobayashi Maru).


It's going to be fun to see what happens as the lawful interact more with the chaotic as the game moves forward :)

Whatever Captain Kirk taught you ...  Big smile
Nothing against breaking rules, otherwise there would be no development. Rules are the results of a steady negotiation process and decisions. So what is "that ominous rule"?
In pluralistic world as in Illyriad are as many rules as humans. But: there are certain common agreements. In RL and in Illyriad as well, which can't be that virtual and unreal as real persons play it.
What are those common agreements (which changed a lot since server start, I guess)?. In most cases they are helpful (in my point of view). To make Elgea a nice place to build settlements and cultivate contacts. A nice place that can be left overnight to find it intact (at least in most cases) the other morning.
Sometimes these unwritten rules prevent a minorities gameplay, which wasn't able to enforce their rules or maybe lawlessness. Why? As the majority wants it like that!
Ok, you could counter now: "sh*t is delicious. A billion flies can't be wrong."
And you may be right: Not always majority is right in that, what they do or want.
But: as rules always change in the long run (in Elgea and in RL), the base or condition for rules stays: every action has a reaction.
In other words. Do what you want. But don't cry, if the echo hurts....
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twilights View Drop Down
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Points: 915 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 01:55
er ok, but i recommend people just have fun, maybe thats following made up rules in a make believe game for u, but to me it just means to dance.....dance dance dance
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Points: 609 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 05:53
Originally posted by Aral Aral wrote:

Life.  Life is a game with no rules.  You can do absolutely ANYTHING, however almost everything you do results in death.  But, no rules!  


So then as a rule anything you do kills you?
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Yeesha D'ni View Drop Down
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Points: 73 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 08:16
Originally posted by gameplayer gameplayer wrote:

... but to me it just means to dance.....dance dance dance


If you like dancing that much, I suggest, you visit techno raves, carnival parades or maybe hayloft parties instead of sitting in front of your PC and dreaming to dance.  Party
But, if we, with a tiny chance meet there,  and you pretend, having dance fun is stepping on my feet, I would kick your ***, as I don't like my feet to get stepped on. Even if you pretend, fun is stepping on my bros or sisters feet wilfully, I would help them kicking your ***, as I believe in your freedom and fun stopping right there, where you hurt that of others.
But: if you just like dancing, ... have fun !
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Kumomoto View Drop Down
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Points: 2224 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 08:57
Mate-- Sounds like you like to dance when it is music you like to dance to and not when you don't like to dance to it. Welcome to life.
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Points: 109 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 10:10
metaphorically speaking
yes, the dance i dance is determined by the music. But i am not the Dj. In most cases i prefer to sit in the corner because i don't like when Dj starts playing hardcore after seeing my dance.
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Tordenkaffen View Drop Down
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Points: 821 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 10:31
Dont try to be the DJ for that is impossible.

Instead try and realise the truth...

There is no DJ...
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Points: 2224 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 10:49
The beauty of this game is that it is what we make of it. So... Yes... Other games allow newbies to die on sight. We could do that here. But we CHOOSE to not have that. That is part of our culture. That is fundamentally different from other games.

This isn't something the game designers have done. This is something the community has chosen to do.

We didn't have to do this. We chose to do this.
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Aristeas View Drop Down
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Points: 77 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 11:36
Originally posted by WeeAshley WeeAshley wrote:

Having watched all 3 seasons of Star Trek:TOS, I'm not convinced that what makes us human is rules.  If Captain James Tiberius Kirk has taught us anything it's that to win you have to break the rules (Kobayashi Maru).

Well, rules are found within every single known society, and an individual mind can´t work without them (even while you are thinking you are using grammar (and/or logic), not to speak all the other rules you are abiding to unconsciously, because you can´t deal with all things at the same time consciously, and if you would do, you would never get to the "higher" things we are usually positioning our freedom of choice at). You don´t have to define the human nature by it (wouldn´t do it either), but you can´t deny it´s part of his nature and working quite well most of the time. Of course the rules are changing, as we and the world are changing (in part because of those rules, so we get nasty double-dialectics), but we can influence the way they change, and untill now not the maximum of fun for the few was choosen to be favoured (and we have historically speaking many societies on earth, that stickes/sticked to this rules for hunderds or even thousands of years, so it´s clearly a viable option). And I haven´t read a good argument yet for changeing it^^

As in your example Kirk is of cause not breaking every rule at once (and by reprogramming he has to use the rules of the programms languange of course) and only an implicit one, with two effects:

1. He can rescue helpless civilians on the level of the game
2. He can make the point, that he believes that there is always a possible positive way out that not end´s in death and destruction (to slightly rephrase it and make it even more apllyable to Illy: a war-scenario leading to certain death of 1-2 ships´n´crews can be made into a totally peaceful scenario!)

And that is of cause sticking to the higher ethos of the starfleet, and not just neo-liberal my-fun-and-freedom-comes-first-to-hell-with-the-others!

If the Kobayashi Maru prooves anything with respect to Illy, than I think it gives right to the many people trying to make it a good place for as many persons possible, even if it is at times paradox, because they can be referring to the higher ethos and are looking at the possible effects. 
Of course Kirk is having his fun doing that, but that just shows that you don´t need angels for utopias...

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WeeAshley View Drop Down
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Points: 173 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 13:42
Originally posted by Aristeas Aristeas wrote:

Well, rules are found within every single known society...

rule noun. a principle or regulation governing conduct, action, procedure, arrangement.

While I agree that rules are found in every human society, they are not universal.  Any "society" with a population of 1 does not necessarily have rules.  It can, but it doesn't necessarily have to.   But that is just to be argumentative.

You waxed poetical about Kirk and his 'rules.'  However, judging someone else's rules is impossible as we only have their outward behaviours to judge them by.

But this aside, my post about Kirk didn't state, "He doesn't have rules" - rather it stated "To win he broke the rules."  And to make plain my point from that post: I suspect the people in this game who 'win' will do so by breaking some rules as well.

(Unless you redefine "win" as have fun, or some other thing that losers redefine words to mean so they can cushion their fragile egos... <evil>MWhahahahahhhaha!</evil>)
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