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Rill 
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903 |
 Posted: 30 Jul 2012 at 21:03 |
It seems to me that one of the major lessons to be gained from the series of conflicts is that the community is in general in favor of using words rather than armies to resolve disputes, particularly those that are about ideas.
Both TRO and Aesir used armies rather than words, and while I support Aesir in its repugnance at TLR demands, I think it is possible that words were the better response in that situation.
The question of when using armies is appropriate is a difficult one; hopefully we have learned and grown as a community since, for example, the Valar episode.
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Sisren
Forum Warrior
Joined: 03 Feb 2012
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 446 |
Posted: 30 Jul 2012 at 21:37 |
I disagree Rill. It would be more about who is able to quickly bring a better coalition together.
TLR obviously has diplomatic relations that aren't as visible without looking further, while AEsir acted unilaterally and without such aid.
Hopefully we won't hear about the GPs for a while at least...
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903 |
Posted: 30 Jul 2012 at 22:07 |
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The key, Sisren, is the point about acting unilaterally -- people need to talk and develop consensus. For example, while I personally agreed with the point Aesir was making, I was not convinced that military intervention was the right way to make it. Others may have felt the same way.
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Prometheuz
Forum Warrior
Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 230 |
Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 01:50 |
 Rill wrote:
The key, Sisren, is the point about acting unilaterally -- people need to talk and develop consensus. For example, while I personally agreed with the point Aesir was making, I was not convinced that military intervention was the right way to make it. Others may have felt the same way. |
I am curious as to how you perceive this "consensus" of yours. What are the constituents elements? Since you have applied it to the alliances of Illyria. Which alliances are you referring to? Alternatively , perhaps you are referring to the opinons sometimes stated in GC or maybe here in the forums both if which are subject so much pnp? Surely they can hardly be a foundation for a balanced consensus ...
Please enlighten me.
Edited by Prometheuz - 31 Jul 2012 at 01:53
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SugarFree
Forum Warrior
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 350 |
Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 02:06 |
rill can act though and all, but there are forces not even her PR can influence.
read H? and it's people.
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903 |
Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 02:21 |
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Consensus is a general consent of all (or in a non-technical sense a large number of) a group of people. Those can be members of an alliance, a group of confederated alliances, a group of allies, or a group of people with disparate interests and agendas. The larger and arguably more varied the group, the more compelling their agreement will be.
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SugarFree
Forum Warrior
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 350 |
Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 02:43 |
masses are ignorant and easily fooled. majority rule is not always the rule of the "right"
i despise that. i despise people that manipulate the ignorant masses to their own profit.
consensus is an other word for making unjust just and bleach personal opinions and individual freedom into a blank monotone of gray. Yucks!
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Sisren
Forum Warrior
Joined: 03 Feb 2012
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 446 |
Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 04:12 |
Concensus would have been AEsir approaching their allies, and gaining support for their works.
I'm kind of surprised that you 2 don't really understand the concept.
As far as it being about just/ unjust - justice is giving to each what they deserve tempered by mercy. But i guess you may not know that either...
And I am unfamiliar with you SugarFree, do you actually play Illy? or just trowl the forums? I am not sure why you feel the need to bring up H? near as I can tell they commented on the original post and are out of it. /me shrugs
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Nokigon
Postmaster General
Player Council - Historian
Joined: 07 Nov 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1452 |
Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 09:14 |
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In some ways, though not about the Harmless stuff, I agree with Sugarfree. What you are talking about, Rill, is a large group of people laying down rules of what is right and wrong, and any who disobey said rules will be swatted without mercy. A slight exaggeration, perhaps, but I'm not too sure this is too far from the truth. You said that a large group of people need to develop consensus and solve the conflict with words. I disagree. I think that if soeone thinks a certain way about something then they should do something about it. This is not a debating society. It is a war game, and if the Devs hadn't intended for us to fight each other then they would not have incorporated armies. And anyway, who would be this large group of people? You? Me? It seems that you're trying both to create world peace, which isn't necessarily down to you, but you attempt to do it by having a large group of 'police' over the rest of the Illy population. So you're trying to stop war by replacing it with discussion, but you're backing up your 'comittee' with a large group of people strong enough to dictate to everyone else what they should do. How is this very different to what Aesir did?
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SugarFree
Forum Warrior
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 350 |
Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 13:04 |
agree with noki, and yes, i play illyiriad. i play it and i enjoy it.
i may sound a bit jerkish at times, and i have to put up a troll mask, but that's a necessity, sadly.
i brought up H? cause to my experiences, those guys are the true neutrals of illy.
Edited by SugarFree - 31 Jul 2012 at 13:07
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