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HIDE THE HUBS
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Poll Question: Hide and Close (for a period) Centrum and Hope Ridge ?
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Sif View Drop Down
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Points: 84 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sif Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2022 at 22:31
Therefore, by your own definition, he is a trader via the merchant route. ===>>> agreed ............but no he is not do it for profit/// exept if he does so then yes he is one of the very few exeptions


I don't think it is self explained that only monetary profit applies. Explain it for me. ===>>> you think that wikipedia refers to other kinds of profits when reffers to the trader ??
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Thirion View Drop Down
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Points: 248 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thirion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2022 at 09:29
Originally posted by Sif Sif wrote:

Trader - Wikipedia

Trader may refer to:

 ·         Merchant, retailer or one who attempts to generally buy wholesale and sell later at a PROFIT


After re-reading the definition i think you are missing an important factor Sif. A merchant attempts to make a profit.

Me and all other traders i know always attempt to make monetary profit. As i said my main reason (and not my only one - there are a lot of reasons/profits why i trade Prestige the way i do) is ranking profit - that does not mean though that i am trying to also make some monetary profit. Over time i made billions of monetary profit (gold)  in trading.
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Points: 1579 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tensmoor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2022 at 09:31
One of the things that first attracted me to Illy was the number of different ways to play. This also applies to trading no matter the definition you apply.
  • You can buy items and resell them.
  • You can harvest items and sell them.
  • You can harvest items and use them to produce other items to sell.
  • You can produce items using basic resources to sell.
  • and the list goes on...
There are also many ways judge how succesful you are in your trading endevours:
  • Ranking points
  • Profit
  • Anticipation of the market so you are always producing items that are in demand
  • There are probably a great many other metrics that I havent thought of.
This is for me one of Illy's greatest strengths. Multiple ways to in effect do the same thing - another is the way the devs actively encourage the creation of third party tools such as DurcTools.

Tens
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eowan the short View Drop Down
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Points: 937 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eowan the short Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2022 at 09:40
Why does it matter if he makes a profit? Your definition of merchant makes no mention of profit.

I think a generic advantage or benefit very much could apply, so please explain why traders can only ever trade for monetary profit.
This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some person started it, not knowing what it was, and we'll continue posting on it forever just because...
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Points: 84 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sif Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2022 at 10:44

After re-reading the definition i think you are missing an important factor Sif. A merchant attempts to make a profit.===è>> agree on that you don’t have to make profit you have just  to attempt to do it …… but why to attempt to make something that is almost impossible since the other part of how needs the goods know exactly how much it cost and where to find them ( the only reason for the 99% traders  is impatient profit )

 

 

  • You can buy items and resell them.=== >>>TRADER  exactly this is what visibility of centum HUB destroy since why to buy and resell when the person you will attempt to resell can buy directly from the producer .
  • You can harvest items and sell them.=è>> NOT TRADER
  • You can harvest items and use them to produce other items to sell. .=è>> NOT TRADER
  • You can produce items using basic resources to sell. .=è>> NOT TRADER
  • and the list goes on... .=è>> NOT TRADER

 

 

Why does it matter if he makes a profit? Your definition of merchant makes no mention of profit.=è>>> It does /// Wikipedia == Merchant, retailer or one who attempts to generally buy wholesale and sell later at a PROFIT === >>>

you think Wikipedia refes to other kind of profit and not monetary ?

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eowan the short View Drop Down
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Points: 937 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eowan the short Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2022 at 10:59
It's pretty clear to me from the wording that in your definition of trader, the reference to profit is made solely in relation to a wholesaler.

Here is how the sentence is structured, brackets for emphasis:
[Merchant], [retailer] or [one who attempts to generally buy wholesale and sell later at a profit]
Merchant and retailer are both separate from the wholesaler which is the only one with a reference to profit.

I believe it is possible that the profit referred to solely in the wholesaler section is not always a monetary profit. After all, what about traders who use a bartering based system rather than a monetary one?

Also, why do you think your definition of trader is superior to the one I originally stated?

trader
/ˈtreɪdə/
noun
  1. a person who buys and sells goods, currency, or shares.


Edited by eowan the short - 25 Mar 2022 at 10:59
This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some person started it, not knowing what it was, and we'll continue posting on it forever just because...
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Sif View Drop Down
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Points: 84 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sif Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2022 at 11:06
Merchant and retailer are both separate from the wholesaler which is the only one with a reference to profit.====>>>> you are  correct here.....BUT do you have a RL exemple of what wikipedia would refer to a merchant motivation????
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eowan the short View Drop Down
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Points: 937 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eowan the short Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2022 at 11:13
You missed out replying to a part of my post, so I will repost it:


I believe it is possible that the profit referred to solely in the wholesaler section is not always a monetary profit. After all, what about traders who use a bartering based system rather than a monetary one?

Also, why do you think your definition of trader is superior to the one I originally stated?

trader
/ˈtreɪdə/
noun
  1. a person who buys and sells goods, currency, or shares.
This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some person started it, not knowing what it was, and we'll continue posting on it forever just because...
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Thirion View Drop Down
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Points: 248 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thirion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2022 at 12:12
Originally posted by Sif Sif wrote:

After re-reading the definition i think you are missing an important factor Sif. A merchant attempts to make a profit.===è>> agree on that you don’t have to make profit you have just  to attempt to do it …… but why to attempt to make something that is almost impossible since the other part of how needs the goods know exactly how much it cost and where to find them ( the only reason for the 99% traders  is impatient profit )


But that is the same in real life too? For almost all of the products you can easily find their price and where to find them.


Originally posted by Sif Sif wrote:

Why does it matter if he makes a profit? Your definition of merchant makes no mention of profit.=è>>> It does /// Wikipedia == Merchant, retailer or one who attempts to generally buy wholesale and sell later at a PROFIT === >>>

you think Wikipedia refes to other kind of profit and not monetary ?



In my opinion you should not use a real life definition and use it exactly like that for a game with different circumstances. As an example: In real life it doesn't really make sense to trade for ranking points.

In real life monetary profit might (or might not - i do not really care tbh) the only profit - in Illyriad there are a lot of different profits.
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eowan the short View Drop Down
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Points: 937 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eowan the short Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2022 at 12:30
A teacher is one who teaches
A researcher is one who researches
A farmer is one who farms.
A trader is one who trades.

Anyone who participates in the markets of illy, be it the formal markets in hubs or the informal markets in GC, is a trader to one degree or another.

Trader is not a binary off or on, it is a spectrum. On one end, you have the non-traders who never trade with anyone else. On the other end, you have the impossibly pure trader, whose sole town contains nothing but a marketplace, a merchant's guild, and a trade office. Almost everyone falls somewhere in between.

How they trade is irrelevant. What drives them to trade is irrelevant. What the result of their trading is is irrelevant. All that matters is that they take their place within the cogs and wheels of illy's economic system.

This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some person started it, not knowing what it was, and we'll continue posting on it forever just because...
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