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Meagh 
Forum Warrior
Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 224 |
 Posted: 17 May 2013 at 05:16 |
 Salararius wrote:
If you don't like what others do, you have no moral prerogative to "correct" the situation with force or by destroying their units.
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It is a moral imperative that I kill any poachers on my sov squares, whether or not I made the kill.
Otherwise, it is my view that if you kill it, you harvest it. If you did not kill it, then you risk putting yourself in a bad spot by harvesting it. - M.
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Gragnog
Postmaster
Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 598 |
Posted: 17 May 2013 at 10:33 |
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It all comes down to personal opinions and actions. My opinion is if you go into a farmers lands and steal his cows you are a thief, and as such you cannot moan if you get caught and punished. Illyriad is much the same in that I am a peaceful farmer who protects his lands. Now the boundies of those lands can be disputed but if you look at many alliances, they all have the "do not settle within 10 squares" and as such I consider 10 squares arounds my cites as my grazing lands. If you come from further out than that to STEAL items you know you did spend any energy in obtaining expect punishment. If you have any inclination to make an issue and try and retaliate on my "grazing lands" or park an army there expect to be visited by many more farmers with pitchforks and ploughs.
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Kaggen is my human half
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Auraya
Postmaster
Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 523 |
Posted: 17 May 2013 at 11:37 |
If I spot a legion of rats, I'll kill them and leave the hides/parts because I'm only interested in the exp. People can harvest those if they want them.. I deliberately don't leave an army on those. If I kill something with parts I want, I leave my army there.
To expect people not to gather animal parts of hides within 10 squares of a city is unrealistic. If NPCs didn't attack each other then what you're asking would seem much more reasonable.. but they do and no-one knows who killed what. Smaller players can't afford to kill a lot of NPCs and getting the hides to build their skinners is tough - NPC battles are very useful for them and killing the skinners they have worked very hard to build is counterproductive.
My alliance rule is not to harvest within 3 squares of an active player.. but I have, more than once, killed/harvested parts 1-2 squares from a player and dropped them an IGM asking if they are active and want the parts. I'm prepared to give the parts up and recognise their claim but I'd have a VERY big problem if someone wiped my army/harvesters after I mailed them about it.
If someone was harvesting parts I had killed too close to my city, I'd mail them to request the parts back rather than kill their skinners. If they continued to harvest too close despite being warned about it,
then I'd consider taking military action.. but even then, I'd be more likely to simply bump them and mail their leadership.
As with everything, try to treat people as you would like to be treated. How would you feel if your skinners were repeatedly being killed by players 7+ squares away who didn't bother to mark their kills? Compare that to how you would feel if your skinners were merely bumped and you got a mail saying 'Sorry but I killed these so I consider the parts to be mine'
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Gragnog
Postmaster
Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 598 |
Posted: 17 May 2013 at 12:20 |
Auraya wrote:
My alliance rule is not to harvest within 3 squares of an active player.. but I have, more than once, killed/harvested parts 1-2 squares from a player and dropped them an IGM asking if they are active and want the parts. I'm prepared to give the parts up and recognise their claim but I'd have a VERY big problem if someone wiped my army/harvesters after I mailed them about it.
If someone was harvesting parts I had killed too close to my city, I'd mail them to request the parts back rather than kill their skinners. If they continued to harvest too close despite being warned about it,
then I'd consider taking military action.. but even then, I'd be more likely to simply bump them and mail their leadership.
As with everything, try to treat people as you would like to be treated. How would you feel if your skinners were repeatedly being killed by players 7+ squares away who didn't bother to mark their kills? Compare that to how you would feel if your skinners were merely bumped and you got a mail saying 'Sorry but I killed these so I consider the parts to be mine'
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Everyone has their own way of dealing with things. I do not have a problem with people mailing me and asking if they can harvest, but without any form of communication and taking stuff you did not kill in the hope that it is a NPC killing another close to my cities always will get the same response. My farmers will go forth at speed to kill the offenders. If you are a new player then best start slow and develop instead of getting everything for free. If you are an older player you should know better. If I harvest close to other people I mail them and wait for a response before sending my harvesters. It is just polite. You do not go onto someone elses property in real life expecting to be given stuff you did not earn, unless you are a beggar and then the response will be go get a job, so why do you think it is ok to do so in Illy?
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Kaggen is my human half
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Salararius
Postmaster
Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 519 |
Posted: 17 May 2013 at 14:25 |
Gragnog wrote:
It all comes down to personal opinions and actions. My opinion is if you go into a farmers lands and steal his cows you are a thief, and as such you cannot moan if you get caught and punished. Illyriad is much the same in that I am a peaceful farmer who protects his lands. Now the boundies of those lands can be disputed but if you look at many alliances, they all have the "do not settle within 10 squares" and as such I consider 10 squares arounds my cites as my grazing lands. If you come from further out than that to STEAL items you know you did spend any energy in obtaining expect punishment. If you have any inclination to make an issue and try and retaliate on my "grazing lands" or park an army there expect to be visited by many more farmers with pitchforks and ploughs. |
I like the analogy but it's incomplete at best. There are no clear boundaries in this game. The skins and animal parts that fall from slaughtered animals look exactly like the skins and animal parts that fall from animals fighting each other. A better analogy is if you are an apple "farmer" who has a dozen apple trees within an arbitrary distance of your home. At some random interval you put forth an effort to knock the apples off your trees and leave them laying on the ground with the intention of picking them up later.
You thus feel that no one should collect any apples within that arbitrary distance from anyone's house because of the effort you've expended.
As a result of this universally applied belief, you feel you don't have to mark "your" apple trees and you can automatically kill anyone who grabs an apple from the ground around "your" trees. Using the farmer paradigm, that's a closer analogy and I'm pretty sure most people would not consider a farmer like that very "peaceful".
There's a mathematical flaw with the belief that everyone can settle as close as 10 squares from another's city and that everyone can own 10 squares around their city. If everyone has the right to own 10 squares around their city then no one can settle closer than 20 squares of another's city. But that's really beside the main point.
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Gragnog
Postmaster
Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 598 |
Posted: 17 May 2013 at 15:11 |
Salararius wrote:
There's a mathematical flaw with the belief that everyone can settle as close as 10 squares from another's city and that everyone can own 10 squares around their city. If everyone has the right to own 10 squares around their city then no one can settle closer than 20 squares of another's city. But that's really beside the main point.
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I have no problem with my neighbors harvesting if they are also within 10 squares. My problem comes in when people travel distances to harvest. And I also realize that there are no rules in Illy. That being said, harvest away near my cities. If I am in a good mood you may get some items. If I am not, you will lose your gatherers.
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Kaggen is my human half
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Meagh
Forum Warrior
Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 224 |
Posted: 18 May 2013 at 00:35 |
Salararius wrote:
There are no clear boundaries in this game...
There's a mathematical flaw with the belief that everyone can settle as close as 10 squares from another's city and that everyone can own 10 squares around their city. If everyone has the right to own 10 squares around their city then no one can settle closer than 20 squares of another's city. But that's really beside the main point.
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Sovereignty being an exception? That is certainly by design a clear boundary.
Also well said on your second point. It is confused way too often... In any case, just because something is 10, 5 or 2 squares from your city doesn't *mark* it as yours. If you Sov it or put an army there, that would mark your claim and there would be no confusion.
I do not get grumpy about players harvesting unmarked/unclaimed resources any distance from my cities. The only time I get grumpy is when the tile is clearly marked as claimed by my sov or my troops. If I fail to put the effort into building a fence, how would anyone know they've crossed into my property? I couldn't get upset about that...
Also, I don't recall anyone really saying '10 squares is my grazing lands'. That old ten-square rule came about way before harvesting and was more about sov/city growth issues. Groups abusing that common understanding in an attempt to secure vast swathes of 'grazing land' without investing sov or the armies to claim it... well that's just impractical for all parties and something that I've never and would never observe. Better to mark it so there is no misunderstanding. - M.
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Samalander
New Poster
Joined: 24 Dec 2012
Location: oregon
Status: Offline
Points: 39 |
Posted: 18 May 2013 at 02:54 |
It amazes me how people who never kill their own npc's think the animals are killing each other left and right. It probably happens about twice a week in a 200 square area.
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Aurordan
Postmaster
Player Council - Ambassador
Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 982 |
Posted: 18 May 2013 at 03:05 |
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It probably happens twice a week within ten squares of my capital. Not all 200 square areas are the same...
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Llyr
Forum Warrior
Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 267 |
Posted: 18 May 2013 at 03:19 |
I often harvest hides and animal parts from NPC's that I did not kill. How they got there is anyone's guess. But if another player did kill the NPC's, and decided to kill my harvesters for poaching, that's my problem and I don't feel I have any grounds to complain about it. It does, in fact, happen occasionally.
In the last few hours I did kill a number of NPC groups around my towns. To ensure that I harvest the hides and parts, I've sent occupying armies to each of those squares. They only need to be there for a few days anyway. If I hadn't sent the armies and another player started harvesting the hides and parts, I would bump them but probably not kill them.
Bottom Lines:
1. If you didn't kill it but you try to harvest it and get killed, don't complain.
2. If you did kill it and want the parts, take the time to mark the square with a token army for a day or two. Saves frayed tempers all round.
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Harvesting hides and animal parts
