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GM Luna
New Poster
Community Manager
Joined: 22 Oct 2011 Location: Illyriad Status: Offline Points: 2042 |
Posted: 23 Nov 2012 at 15:27 |
Stay on topic. Quit trolling each other. Discuss the issue without insults and off topic nastiness or don't post. Anyone else who continues to drag down the level of discussion on these forums will be banned.
GM Luna
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GM Luna | Illyriad Community Manager | community@illyriad.co.uk
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Sister Nikki
Greenhorn
Joined: 16 Nov 2010 Status: Offline Points: 76 |
Posted: 23 Nov 2012 at 15:39 |
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1st 250 million gold is nothing, now if you believe that is reasonable to give or not that is a decision to be taken.
2nd when I do not want to be involved in a war or in any hostilities I do not sell or try to gain profit from the conflict but who can resist on the profit or friendship. Still is risky.
3rd Recently members of a "neutral" alliance have been
caught helping in a siege, just thought that they could join an oportunity to sneak helping, sieging and fighting under anony
mity.
So when you help an alliance in war either by providing resources or participating in battles both are considered as Casus belli at least if we make the
interrelationships alliance = country. Now there could be a difference in trade and war supplying when trading is happening every day and hour and war supplying when you support a city under siege which is very obvious from the timing, the numbers of vans and the speed on them.
Recently just for the history even the cyberattacks are considered as reason for war from some countries.
What I do see unfortunately is that many do not like to get involved in a war clearly, but prefere to participate sneaky on the war.
Something more
Inappropriate is that althouth the history has
condemned as the worst action "Pearl Harbor" many are
mimic this action. So as people how we judge this actions and what have we learned from our history is well pesented in Illyriad world.
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Sister Nikki
Greenhorn
Joined: 16 Nov 2010 Status: Offline Points: 76 |
Posted: 23 Nov 2012 at 15:41 |
gameplayer wrote:
i am personally going to send 1 million gold to ce so they dont have to be in the war, i urge everyone else to send them gold...no amount is too small....and i hope they spank their offending member |
I can also donate if this is the real problem 10mg
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Hora
Postmaster
Joined: 10 May 2010 Status: Offline Points: 839 |
Posted: 23 Nov 2012 at 15:56 |
Sister Nikki wrote:
gameplayer wrote:
i am personally going to send 1 million gold to ce so they dont have to be in the war, i urge everyone else to send them gold...no amount is too small....and i hope they spank their offending member |
I can also donate if this is the real problem 10mg 
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Entirely my point.
Why demand something like that in the first place then! Write: "Please stop, if you want to stay neutral", and that's it. Simple, direct, honest.
Putting fees on it, makes that message look quite arrogant, top-down and more like a blackmailing letter than a diplomatic document.
Diplomacy is all about wording and respect, and those letters (if cited correctly) had none of that, I'm afraid.
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Sister Nikki
Greenhorn
Joined: 16 Nov 2010 Status: Offline Points: 76 |
Posted: 23 Nov 2012 at 16:06 |
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I dont think Hora that gameplayer or I have writen the fist statement but for me at least means:
"because you have done so pay the
consequences, pay the penalty"
Why we assume that diplomacy works after our actions and not before them? Do we have ignorance of our actions or we just try to act and not be caught, so there isnt a big deal ?
Edited by Sister Nikki - 23 Nov 2012 at 16:06
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Drejan
Forum Warrior
Joined: 30 Sep 2010 Status: Offline Points: 234 |
Posted: 23 Nov 2012 at 16:48 |
Hora do you really think H? care of 250M?
250M is not much for an alliance but might help remember not to do it again.
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KillerPoodle
Postmaster General
Joined: 23 Feb 2010 Status: Offline Points: 1853 |
Posted: 23 Nov 2012 at 17:10 |
Hora wrote:
Why demand something like that in the first place then! Write: "Please stop, if you want to stay neutral", and that's it. Simple, direct, honest.
Putting fees on it, makes that message look quite arrogant, top-down and more like a blackmailing letter than a diplomatic document.
Diplomacy is all about wording and respect, and those letters (if cited correctly) had none of that, I'm afraid.
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Hora - if it was one small member doing this then maybe I'd have done it that way. As it is it was one of their 3 leaders - which means they knew exactly what they were doing - it warrants a different level of response.
Then there was the lie from Spotem about it being "some new folks we took in from FF" - I mean, if their own diplomats are going to lie directly to me about it why on earth would I try to continue negotiating with them?
As others have stated 250mill gold is basically nothing especially for a "peaceful" alliance - but it might help jog their memories next time they think about it - and it might have an impact on everyone else thinking about sneaking some help in. Plus - haven't you guys ever heard of a counter offer?
It's also to do with poop's posturing on here and in GC - tbh honest it was kinda fun to take the wind out of his sails from "We have nothing to do with this war" and "no one has been sending stuff to EE" down to "oh shoot, you actually have proof, now I'm gonna have to try to do some damage control because we were caught red handed".
Bottom line (and I've said it all along) - If you decide to mess with H? you better hold on to your hats because it's gonna get ugly pretty fast.
Finally, to those who are trying to drag T? into this - down that way lies your destruction. I can categorically state that there has been zero assistance in any way shape or form from T? to H? They are completely neutral (unlike CE) and so do not need to be commented about in this discussion. Unlike poop and his spin team I can state that in complete honesty.
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"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM
"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill
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belargyle
Forum Warrior
Joined: 17 Jun 2010 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 401 |
Posted: 23 Nov 2012 at 17:20 |
People, War is not some skirmish and the consequenses are/can be more extreme. There are repercussions to actions and
you (the offendee) don't get to determine what the punishment will be.
If you wish to stay neutral, don't become involved in way, shape, form, or fashion. Anyone who presumes sending aid (whether supplies or siege busters) somehow means they are not involved; 1. doesn't understand what 'involved' means much less entails and 2. doesn't have the faintest concept regarding the mechanics of the established game play during wars.
Established as in, it has happened before and is something utilized and though not always the only option, is in fact one of the options used to help others understand the depth of their mistake. Dlord has done this very same thing in past wars and it was tried on us, once.
If they truly desire to be neutral, they can pay the price and stay out. If they, as an alliance, cannot come up with the gold, they have other EE alliances that can help keep their Eagles out of harms way. Nothing wrong with that either.
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Silverlake
Forum Warrior
Joined: 15 Oct 2011 Status: Offline Points: 417 |
Posted: 23 Nov 2012 at 19:08 |
Party A does something bad to Party B
Party B asks for compensation from Party A
Party A lies publicly about involvement to mitigate damages and gain public support
Party B calls out Party A on lies
Party C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, T, U, V, W, X, Y, and Z state opinions
Did I miss anything?
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Southern Dwarf
Forum Warrior
Joined: 28 Sep 2011 Status: Offline Points: 281 |
Posted: 23 Nov 2012 at 20:05 |
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Well yes, does a war declaration follow or did you only choose to provoke such a discussion here?
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Also known as Afaslizo ingame.
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