The following will be basic narrative with unedited mail included, from my own perspective:
From the beginning:
I joined WN (Warriors of the New) on June 19 after relocating to the Kal Tirikan area, nearby players Stifle and The Duke, leaders of WN. We started working together to grow our alliance and build towns in our area. Our original idea was to settle the area to our north, surrounding the lake there, which we felt would be a good economic area. By the time that we had settled the south side of the lake (the nearer side) we noticed that there were some new towns to the northeast of the lake (btw the lake is located at -513/681). There were 3 and they were all members of Grudge Bearer alliance. We looked at their alliance profile, member list, map and diplomacy (like anyone really should when finding a nearby alliance). The profile was somewhat disturbing to us and seemed quite hostile. The map showed that they had quite a few large towns in The Wastes, the 3 new towns in Kal Tirikan and that was all, there were only 5 or 6 members at the time. Their diplomacy showed them in an alliance with VALAR who we believed to be an aggressive alliance. All signs were pointing to us treading carefully with these guys or we'd be killed by them. So we decided to let them move into Kal Tirikan, but offer a nice border between them and us. So working together our alliance drafted a letter and The Duke sent it to Telchar. Here is the letter:
Hello Telchar,
I am contacting you on behalf of my Alliance Warriors of The New. We would like to reach an agreement that would be beneficial for both our alliances in which we can each expand and continue to grow. We propose that you control all areas North of 700 and East of -500(700 and -500 included). We will guarantee nobody from Warriors of The New will settle in that area if you let us control south of 690 and west of -510.(690 and -510 included). We feel this would benefit both of our alliances in future endeavours. We look forward to hearing your response, I messaged Druchii first but havent gotten a response yet so im contacting you hoping to speed things along.
The Duke
We were trying to allow ourselves to still settle the area around the lake as we had originally planned, but also allow GRUJ to settle the majority of Kal Tirikan. This mail was read and a new one was sent by Telchar to The Duke, which was forwarded to our alliance council. Here is Telchar's repsonse:
The Duke,
I centered a 10x10 on-505 695 so I could look at the map. From the water hole in the north corner to the tile a cpl west of Tringar is a dmz? Im playing..It did give me a good look at the map as you proposed.
Are we talking about just Kal Tirikan? Also...if we GRUJ can settle only on the east of the -500 it would be cutting us off from our home bace in The central Waste.
Our current settlements in KT were to give access not just to food but to the Factions when/if the content is added.
Dont get me wrong..I dont wish to haggle. I realize that is just a courtesy for your larger Alliance to consult with ours. We are little less than a rooks pawn in the corner now. But I know we will one day be the Rook that holds The Waste for our Alliance and confederates. The West is Strong with Colonist Empire. And even in the territorys you propose we avoid there are neutrals I may have been slowly courting for Alliance such as Gunfo...and Confederates such as Ladypinkvarmint of [VALAR].
I am strongly inclined to accept your generous offer of a treaty, our Alliance founder(tho I love him dearly) is often away and in truth I run the Alliance for him. That is my purpose as Steward. But I must first and formost look to its care.
What about new players who tele to the GRUJ areas and then join your Alliance and vise-versa.
And Valar our confederate..I would not have them molested for establishing more citys in Kal Tirikan. Nor can I dictate to them where they choose to settle; But I must defend them to the last of my soldiers...for that is what our Confederation calls for.
Also what of the post-ipso-facto players...for example Gunfo..he has a strong position in west KT and even if he continues to choose independance over an Alliance, he has proven himself to be true to his word and I have promised him any help he should desire at the asking. If he should one day join us we would be violating your Borders altho post-treaty.
Again I am not trying to be dificult...just to establish a relationship between our Alliances. GRUJ will hold the Central Waste, or go down defending it. Just as the Colonist Empire will do in Fremorn. And I expect that Warriors Of The New will now do the same for West-Centra Kal Tirikan and your smaller clusters South and East.
Grudge Bearer is honored by your courtesy, I am anyway and I speak for GRUJ. I think you will be strong allies in Kal Tirikan. Touch on the points above with your leadership council, I will call Druchii as he is probly at his aunts or uncles...he hasnt been on for a bit. Hes young and its summer. Im old and its just a hotter day than the rest of the year.
Looking forward to hearing back from you, also to the start of a new friendship.
Yours Respectfully,
Telchar Steward
P.S. The large cluster of castles in the far NW corner, sometimes lots of armys moving around...sometimes none. I believe they must be devs or play-testers. If you know different I would be thankfull for any info. But If you will observe..many of the Ice holes they settle on seem to change into fully resourced plots. Thanx again.
-T
We realized that our first mail wasn't specific enough and so we wanted to be more specific and also address Telchar's concerns. So our alliance went back and drafted up a new agreement for GRUJ, one that was more specific, one that applied to both of our alliances. Here is the response:
Grudge Steward,
We understand your concern, we are not trying to cut you off from your base in The Wastes. We are concerned at your spread into our area and wish to avoid open conflict. In response, we will slightly alter our border agreements that will not be cutting you off from your home.
Our new agreement is the following:
Grudge Bearers can build north of 700 between -500 and -350 and north of 750 anywhere else in Kal Tirikan.
The Warriors of the New will keep a distance from that line of 10 squares. We will not build north of 690 between -510 and -340 and not build north of 740 anywhere else in Kal Tirikan.
To specify more clearly:
Points (-680, 750) (-500, 750) (-500, 700) (-350, 700) (-350, 750) (-85, 750) are GRUJ southern boundaries:
| (-680, 750) |
to |
(-500, 750) |
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(-350, 750) |
to |
(-85, 750) |
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to |
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to |
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(-500, 700) |
to |
(-350, 700) |
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Points (-680, 740) (-510, 740) (-510, 690) (-340, 690) (-340, 740) (-85, 740) are W.N. northern boundaries:
| (-680, 740) |
to |
(-510, 740) |
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(-340, 740) |
to |
(-85, 740) |
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to |
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to |
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(-510, 690) |
to |
(-340, 690) |
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The 10 square area between our lands is to remain open of all GRUJ and W.N. cities. If someone joins who is living outside of our territories, they must not build any new towns outside of their respective alliance's territory, current towns located outside of our territory will be tolerated. That being said, it would be wise for each of us to only recruit players who are not already living in each others area.
In answer to your previous questions:
VALAR, though they are in Confederation with you, are of no concern. I realized that VALAR player Ladypinkyvarmint is located in close relation to some of our players, and this matter is between us and them.
Post-ipso-facto players (such as Gunfo) will be allowed to continue living in our lands provided they do not cause us problems or continue building in our lands. Any new towns built in our land in violation of these terms is free to be razed. I'm sure you can understand this, given the space needed for sovereignity.
I respect your dedication to The Wastes and you have my promise that we will not bother you or your presence in that location provided you allow us to continue expanding throughout Kal Tirikan and northern Meilla, in our given areas.
The above proposal, upon acceptance, will be a mutually binding contract. Any future violation in this treaty will be considered as a breach in agreement which may lead to open conflict.
Again, we do not wish any hostilities with you or any other alliance, however we must stick to specific agreements in order to avoid conflict.
Warriors of the New Master Strategist,
Tallica
Yes it is a bit confusing, but the border lines had to be made that way because we each had already existing towns that had to make the line not straight. We were not concerned about what the VALAR player in the area was doing. We were letting that player exist how they wished to be, since there was just the one person we didn't feel the need to specify anything concerning them, just keep a reasonable distance away (which we had one player place a new town too close and we are working on getting rid of it). Still at this point player Gunfo had not joined GRUJ and we felt that he would not join them since we had contacted him prior to when I joined WN and he mentioned that he wished to not join any alliance. However we felt that players would not need to move their towns if they were settled prior to joining an alliance. Also our terms don't include this but we had no plans of settling inside or on the far side of what we call "Gunfo's forest". So in effect the player Gunfo was also of no concern, we would let him do what he wished. The final bold lettered area was meant as a warning to both alliances (yes ours too, we were going to send these terms to all of our members and post it in our alliance forums, so that our players would know that serious repercussions would be had for not paying attention to where you settle new towns). This was not meant to be a threat to their alliance, but more a warning to all players in our alliance and theirs. We did not, and do not, want any conflict between us, which is why we started conversing with GRUJ in the beginning.
I know that there was a response to this, one that I didn't get or was able to read. I'll let Telchar post that in response, but unfortunately it went unanswered due to the fact that I was away from the game for a few days, we had certain domestic problems (many new players and several of them were placing towns in locations that needed to be undone) and major players leaving for personal reasons. When I returned to the game we started working on fixing these issues, then I got a letter forwarded from one of our newer, smaller members. It was from Telchar and here it is:
If it would not trouble you...could you forward this to some W.N. alliance members..including your leadership. Im sorry for inconvenience...but I speak for GRUJ and would like to know at least a fiew players recieved this...not just the 'leaders'.
With a great deal of unrest in Kal Tirikan at this time... and as the leader of W.N. never responded to my attempts at diplomacy GRUJ is forced to consider the strategic placing of numerous citys in positions that cut off or box us in, as preludes to an all out attack.
Our leadership has discussed it at length and there is a pattern of agression. We feel this may not be the intentions of the players in W.N. If this is the case then we are sorry you were used so selfishly to serve anothers interest. The W.N. Alliance profile paints a very inviting picture. The actions and words of the Master of Strategy, the placing of the towns and declarations of 'intent to raze any border violations' even by players who were here before W.N. was formed; these are not so pleasant. My own city four is surrounded and considered to be 'inside W.N. territory' and yet it was founded on the 11th day of may. This is a land grab by someone in power and they are using masses of newer players (or bogus accounts) to build a human shield around this imaginary world where they rule. To those players who knowingly went along with this...if there were any(and I prey the number was fiew at most)...Shamefull!
To pretend the actions of the W.N. Alliance leader do not oppose the Ideals represented in the W.N. profile is simply outrageous. As GRUJ has never received an answer from Stifle, all previous offers are null. Grudge Bearer holds the home bace of W.N. to be Meila and the occupation of Kal Tirikan an invasion intent on attacking destroying us and our confederates.
The Steward
This letter was sent to supposedly several of our small members, but I only received 2 that were forwarded. It was quite confusing to many of us. The first part about our "strategic placing of numerous citys in positions that cut off or box us in" is not realistic. Our towns were all placed in accordance with the agreement that we had formerly sent them. We were under the impression that we were working with GRUJ at this point, and there was 1 violation in our "border agreement". That is player Lorelei697, who was working with The Duke in joining us and had moved to that location prior to joining our alliance. This is unfortunate and we have to bear that mistake and were ready and understanding if GRUJ wanted that town gone. The second part that didn't make sense is "declarations of 'intent to raze any border violations' even by players who were here before W.N. was formed". This is not accurate and does not go along with the agreement we stated, or if this is interpretted that way, we didn't mean it thusly. Where we stated that towns would be "razed" was if they were placed in violation of our terms, after the terms were accepted. We had no intention or desire to raze anyone who was there prior to our terms, as was stated in our terms. Next " My own city four is surrounded and considered to be 'inside W.N. territory'" this is also untrue, we set the border to be inclusive of Telchar's newest town and our northernmost town at the time (which is Niels The Bold's 2nd town). It was not a land grab, though we did fill in the area quite quickly, this was due to us gaining on average 2 or 3 members a day for several days straight. All of these members are real people with real lives, no alt accounts with the exception of Ketil Flatnose/Ketla Truttensis, Bevo/Bevo678 and Silent Sword/Steadfast Shield. The only one of these near Telchar and that northern area is Ketla Truttensis. Also, the fact that we placed some "Warriors" in the area was merely a defensive move on our border, as we were not moving any further. Logically anyone would place military outposts to the exterior of their country and economic areas in the center. However, these towns were not meant to threaten or intimidate GRUJ, we were working peace agreements with them. Upon acceptance we would have offered NAP or Confed with them. Lastly, Telchar's last statement has no bearing " Grudge Bearer holds the home bace of W.N. to be Meila and the occupation of Kal Tirikan an invasion intent on attacking destroying us and our confederates.". If anyone takes a look at our alliance map, you'll see we do have a couple players in Meilla, those are not our leaders, we picked them up around the time that we started speaking with GRUJ. Our central hub of towns has always been around Stifle's main town and later the lake to our north. I ask you all to go to Strategic view on the World Map, enter in both Grudge Bearer alliance and Wariors of the New and see who it seems to be invading who. Also, it wasn't until a few days ago (right before the attacks on myself started) that player Gunfo actually joined GRUJ.
To this letter I responded personally to Telchar, shortly after the first army was sent at me by player Tarl of GRUJ. Here's the mail:
Esteemed Grudge Bearer Steward, Telchar:
From WN:
We are not trying to pin you in, we were merely settling within the boundaries that we had formerly discussed with you. Granted some of our players settled too close to you, some of which were out of our control (members such as lorelei relocated to their position prior to joining our alliance). In this I am sorry, however our movements were never meant to be aggressive. In fact we were working out some details to offer you a Confederation which would make our border agreement void and allow you and us to settle anywhere in Kal Tirikan we chose. However, given recent events we see this is no longer an option. I apologize that we did not respond to your last letter in a timely manner, several of our members were in the process of leaving on vacation and we had some misplaced towns that we are still working out. We still wish to resolve this issue peacefully, if possible.
In response to this letter:
We did not surround your 4th town, our towns are located within our territory with the exception of one which was relocated prior to the member joining our alliance. Your town is not within our territory and has no threat of attack. Player Gunfo belongs in his forest area and we have never bothered him in all the time that we have lived in Kal Tirikan, where we started out. We have just finished settling the area in the north that we wanted even before any GRUJ members were settled in Kal Tirikan (yes before even your leaders town here). Now we set our sights to the south, to connect with the new members we picked up in Meilla. We are not, nor were we ever centered in Meilla, our base of operations was always Kal Tirikan, and any assumption of otherwise is foolish. We never had any desire to interfere with player Gunfo or any of GRUJs members.
Immediately cease all aggressive actions against WN members and leaders.
To my knowledge, our diplomatic leader Silent Sword/Steadfast Shield also sent a response to the letter, as did one of our younger members: DeirdreM. Telchar has not responded to this and since then 2 additional armies have been sent at my by player Sveedman of VALAR.
In all this time we have not sent even 1 scout or spy to any of GRUJ or VALAR towns. We are a peaceful alliance and wish no ill-will to anyone. We help where we can, but mostly focus on our own players and keeping ourselves happy and healthy.
I ask that no one target GRUJ or VALAR. I don't want this to turn into another _duQ or TMM incident. I want to resolve this peacefully. The settling of new towns for us will be and has been for quite some time now, to our south, filling in the area between our main central hub in Kal Tirikan and our straggler members in Meilla.
I await Telchar's response to this as well as the general community.
~Tallica
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Brids17 wrote:
