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GM Stormcrow 
Moderator Group
GM
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Location: Illyria
Status: Offline
Points: 3820 |
 Topic: Forbidden Sov - Oceans, Lakes & Lochs
Posted: 16 May 2013 at 03:40 |
Hi all,
You can't currently send armies to coastline ocean squares, lakes and lochs, and therefore you can't claim sovereignty on these squares. (yes, we know that people used to be able to on ocean sov, but that was shut down a while back, though there are still a few out there who have them).
I'm really interested in player feedback about opening up Ocean Coastline, Lakes and Lochs to claiming sovereignty.
PRO: More sov (esp food sov) for people bordering these squares
CON: People who have settled these squares in the expectation of them being "safe" (ie "unsiegable" from) might object
Do the Pros outweigh the cons?
Answers on a postcard (by which I mean, in this forum thread) please.
Best,
SC
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Machete
Wordsmith
Joined: 15 Jun 2012
Location: Koz
Status: Offline
Points: 172 |
Posted: 16 May 2013 at 03:41 |
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SOV SOV SOV
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GM Stormcrow
Moderator Group
GM
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Location: Illyria
Status: Offline
Points: 3820 |
Posted: 16 May 2013 at 03:42 |
Please, btw, don't use this thread to point out other non-related sov issues.
The whole system is undergoing an overhaul atm and I hope we can finally lay the generic bugs (eg phantom sov) to rest.
SC
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903 |
Posted: 16 May 2013 at 03:42 |
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A thought for consideration: If the lakes and lochs and ocean act like existing coastal sov and fight like plains, that would make defending from a siege on those squares relatively straightforward, since the siege camps would be relatively easy to wipe out, especially with cav.
Edited by Rill - 16 May 2013 at 03:46
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Lyken
Greenhorn
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: mCrow
Status: Offline
Points: 55 |
Posted: 16 May 2013 at 03:45 |
I've personally never thought of these impassable tiles as anything other than a menace when settling my cities...
I would certainly love to have these tiles opened up for sov, but as 'water' tiles, would they be given a food-only value, or be treated as a standard bonus tile and have a weighted set of values generated for them?
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Raatalagk
Wordsmith
Joined: 13 Dec 2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 154 |
Posted: 16 May 2013 at 03:46 |
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One way of mitigating the effect of "opening" these tiles to occupation would be if encamped armies suffered large defensive penalties on such tiles.
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903 |
Posted: 16 May 2013 at 03:47 |
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Water acts like plains for the purpose of attack, Raata, so it is already hard to defend. Probably they wouldn't need to make it any harder.
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EvilKatia
Forum Warrior
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 210 |
Posted: 16 May 2013 at 03:50 |
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I think I'd prefer to sov those square, its hard to find a city spot with good enough food so a bit more options on this crowded map would help. I sure didn't settle near loch cause I didn't want to be siege it was more because there was food and spot seem to be good. since then I realize that a un-sovable square next to your city mean your sov is gonna be costly.... Maybe a player could be given a choice ?Like they do this new research in sov and they can either transform the square into sovable food or leave it as a spot you cant be sieged from ?
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Kat
'They have to always turn a forum post into a badly written book that gives a headache and takes your iq points' - AO
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Gon
Wordsmith
Joined: 14 Oct 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 117 |
Posted: 16 May 2013 at 03:55 |
No real thoughts on the Lake and Loch squares. Seems like they would have some food available, but I realize people who settle near them thinking they would be impassable. In the end though what would be more beneficial to the city, an impassable square or more food?
The Ocean Coastal squares are a different story for me though. The squares are labeled jut like all other coastal squares with no indication they cannot be claimed except unless you try and send an army there. The fix I see for those squares to me seems:
1. Make the Ocean Coastal squares with food claimable.
or
2. Remove the food from unclaimable Ocean Coastal squares.
Those are my thoughts. Thanks Stormcrow.
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Raatalagk
Wordsmith
Joined: 13 Dec 2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 154 |
Posted: 16 May 2013 at 03:56 |
From a realism perspective, I would imagine that defending in a lake might be a tad harder than defending on a plain.
More importantly, from a gameplay perspective, although defending on a plain is not ideal, it can and has been done on many occasions with great efficacy. The difference between a tile being impassable and it being treated like a plain is therefore quite a big one.
Here's another suggestion: cap the unit mass that can occupy a lake tile. This even has a touch of realism to it: you can send a small task force to secure a lake region, but you can't camp out 100,000 soldiers there.
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Forbidden Sov - Oceans, Lakes & Lochs