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Claims of Ignoration of Claims
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twilights View Drop Down
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Points: 915 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twilights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2015 at 13:21
halc as we were both members of dark empire which made a land claim several years ago I was wondering why not make a land claim? don't you think that land claim would make the game more interesting than the old fashioned dated method of using the 10 square rule? already land claims have created a lot of action in a game that was becoming very stale and I don't believe the 10 square rule was causing much interest as it is mainly accepted....isn't it the duty of leaders in alliances to provide situations to create excitement in the game? I believe that establishing land claims might be in this realm and I am asking what others
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Edited by twilights - 28 Jul 2015 at 17:54
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It is not the Land Claims that have made the game more interesting, it is the people who are bored and decided to cook up a dispute to have fun. Hats off to Pico for starting something. I do believe however had he ignored the land claim issue and just said "Hey, I am going to fight SIN" he would have gotten a lot more people to join and even more fun would have been had. Lets face it, the people who are complaining about the land claims are not really interested in making the game any more interesting or dynamic, but would prefer for it to continue on its way as it has always been. If things change too much and people realize that it can be a fun place to play they will have nothing to keep bitching to the GM's about.
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Halcyon View Drop Down
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Originally posted by twilights twilights wrote:

halc as we were both members of dark empire which made a land claim several years ago I was wondering why not make a land claim? don't you think that land claim would make the game more interesting than the old fashioned dated method of using the 10 square rule?

Twi, as I remember it there was never a Land Claim by the Dark Empire and I would like to see evidence to the contrary. I do remember you always wanting something similar to a land claim and me always saying no.
In my view, an alliance can achieve the effect of a land claim by placing cities in one location in a concentrated, coordinated effort by all members. There is no need for a proclamation of Land Claim. The alliances who proclaimed their land claims have simply chosen the easy method, saying: Hey that's mine, you keep your hands off it. Some of them have done so even if the designated geographical space is actually quite empty. The result is a wide part of the map in Broken Lands which is in theory inaccessible to most players.
To this date there is ONE land claimer alliance who successfully protected their claim and in essence managed to turn theory into reality. All other claimers are far from being SIN's equals. It will be interesting to see them enforce their land claims in the future.


Edited by Halcyon - 28 Jul 2015 at 20:42
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Originally posted by Halcyon Halcyon wrote:

as I remember it there was never a Land Claim by the Dark Empire and I would like to see evidence to the contrary. 

Actually, DARK did have a land claim, and posted in the forums. It's not easy to read because the text is in white on white, but if you highlight it you can see it:  http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/writ-of-notice-dark-empire_topic3214_page1.html

I find their claim model interesting in how it centers around the capital. Sisren I think was very ahead of his time.


Edited by Jejune - 28 Jul 2015 at 21:01

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Halcyon View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Jejune Jejune wrote:

Originally posted by Halcyon Halcyon wrote:

as I remember it there was never a Land Claim by the Dark Empire and I would like to see evidence to the contrary. 

Actually, DARK did have a land claim, and posted in the forums. It's not easy to read because the text is in white on white, but if you highlight it you can see it:  http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/writ-of-notice-dark-empire_topic3214_page1.html

I find their claim model interesting in how it centers around the capital. Sisren I think was very ahead of his time.

I stand corrected. I was probably a member of Dark at the time, but not leadership.
My friend at the time, Sisren, sure had a way with words  Clap.
I'll hazard again and say that to my knowledge (again) this land claim was never enforced or challenged outside of the forums.
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Originally posted by Halcyon Halcyon wrote:

Originally posted by twilights twilights wrote:

halc as we were both members of dark empire which made a land claim several years ago I was wondering why not make a land claim? don't you think that land claim would make the game more interesting than the old fashioned dated method of using the 10 square rule?

Twi, as I remember it there was never a Land Claim by the Dark Empire and I would like to see evidence to the contrary. 

I suggest you check up with EE, especially with Bomshanka.

DARK made a more ferocious land claim than SIN.




Edited by Thorgrim - 28 Jul 2015 at 21:20
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Thorgrim View Drop Down
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Originally posted by King korr King korr wrote:

Originally posted by Janders Janders wrote:

Jejune, we mean this in a case-by-case basis.  Just a VERY hypothetical example--
(1) HYPOTHETICALLY, SIN claims Fellandire, and despite WoT having cities on the border / a few squares within, states we don't have the right to harvest or expand around those cities.
(2) HYPOTHETICALLY, WoT has a large cluster of cities (say 45) spread around Farshards outside of the SIN claim. However SIN has 5 cities mixed into this area, which they plan of leaving there and using to harvest aggressively.  

We would be AGAINST this arrangement.  We are against LC in general, but especially if you are going to kick us out of an area and tell us not to harvest there, but then leave cities of your own outside of your claim and harvest amongst us.  Certainly we don't mind random people settling within our loose clusters, and harvesting as they see fit as friendly neighbors.  But if you are going to restrict our livelihood, crafting, hunting and trade, we will feel free to do the same in return.

Now all of this is quite hypothetical, we don't have clusters of cities next to SIN and SIN doesn't have cities amongst our cluster stealing our earth salts ;)


Let me expand on this Say Alliance A has claimed a region next to WoT we have no cities in that region. BUT they have a few cities in Ainoara, where we have cities. What would stop Alliance A claiming a second region as their alliance expands and needs more harvest able location so then WoT would either have to go bow to this alliance demands to settle in a region we've been, be kicked out or go to war. 

Seeing as how WoT as a whole is against land claims and won't avoid region's where there are some, and will defend members right's to settle anywhere (out side of 10sq radius of course), and will use ALL  means to defend our right to do so. How this makes use grey i don't know as we not saying we're against land claims but will just stay in our location's we are actively settling where members want to and informed alliance's close to use that if they stick to their land claims it will bring them in to conflict with us.

Also we don't believe alliance's should be able to have their cake and eat it as the saying goes if you want a region to your self you should

  1. Be able to defend and enforce such claim
  2. If blocking others from a region you should stay in that region and not be surprised others are hostile to you trying to have a land claimed region. While still settling freely everywhere else, this is a double standard and we're pointing it out it's a double said. 

I find this quite funny, since WoT has been claiming part of the Western Realms for years, without needing to say it out loud, because DARK did the military stuff.
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Myr View Drop Down
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The Dark land claim was enforced and was in effect even before Sisren made that statement. Vigorous enforcement of an earlier version of the land claim led to my exit from Dark and forced me to leave the western lands. The player DOA had to step in to cover my exit so I could move my cities.
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Halcyon View Drop Down
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I just looked at my outgoing IGM and found out that the first alliance wide message I ever sent in Dark was written on Feb 24 2012, two days after Sisren's Writ of Notice.
While my messege dealt with Dark's under performence in the tournament that began that very day, I find it funny that in that message I specifically stated that our military power was almost non-existent. Defending a land claim at that time was well beyond our reach.


Edited by Halcyon - 28 Jul 2015 at 21:33
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Myr View Drop Down
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Points: 437 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Myr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2015 at 21:43
Stumpf and his brother had most of the military. Twilights had her famous spearmen.  LOL
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