Bring in New Players and Make Sure Old Ones Stay! |
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Brandmeister 
Postmaster General   Joined: 12 Oct 2012 Location: Laoshin Status: Offline Points: 2396 |
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 Quote Reply  Posted: 01 Dec 2014 at 06:49 |
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I see it as a problem that players are told that Tenaril is precious, and that they should save it. That condemns them to a slow, lonely start in the newb ring. If Tenaril functioned like an instant exodus, it would be much better for joining a new alliance. I think it also frustrates people to spend weeks building up to a Warehouse 20, then 5 days on Exodus, only to trash it all when they move.
I have said elsewhere that the community's discouragement of hunting, small armies, diplomats, and harvesting has killed the interest of many new players. The community doesn't allow newbies to take any action against each other, even scouts, without an unnecessary level of threats and interference. As to the larger gridlock, that's just a result of a permanent game where annihilation is possible. People are reluctant to take the risk on wars. Unfortunately that leads to boredom, and to minor conflicts attracting interest from bored big players who perceive little personal risk. To be fair, those tectonic plates have broken free twice in two years, leading to massive wars. |
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| Rill
Postmaster General  Player Council - Geographer Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 6903 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 01 Dec 2014 at 07:04 |
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I am in global chat a lot, and I don't see very much discouragement of hunting. New players who are interested in hunting are often encouraged to do so and sometimes even provided with supplies. I've written a forum post outlining how a new player can effectively build a small army and begin to hunt.
It's true that people caution against attacking other players -- but at the same time attacking other players doesn't confer a lot of benefits in Illyriad. The resources to be gained are not that significant (and there are other ways to gain resources that are more efficient than building armies). I play other games with similar limited benefits to attacking other players, and established players in those games also communicate that to new players, so the phenomenon is not unique to Illy.
I do think that the idea that players should attempt to build to Exodus rather than Tenariling their initial city discourages a lot of new players. The advantages to Exodusing rather than Tenariling are extremely long-term and mostly theoretical. Very few players will actually benefit from terraforming (as opposed to simply settling mostly on 7-food square and perhaps Exodusing their capitals later).
Terraforming is something that does provide a marginal benefit, but for the large number of players who may give up on the game because they are trying to build a level 20 warehouse before they have a properly built city, it is counterproductive.
In terms of a change that I think the community could make that would help retain players, I would say stopping with the expectation that new players should attempt to build level 20 warehouses and Exodus early in their Illy lives; this causes more problems than any admonitions about hunting.
Certainly new players can be told of the option to terraform, and players in very supportive alliances may find that this is something they want to do, but I think most new players will be better off Tenariling early and perhaps terraforming later with an alt account. Not having the pressure to devote a bunch of resources to building a gigantic warehouse (that will then just be de-leveled) will free up those resources to do other interesting things like build armies and diplomatic units.
Edited: clarified run-on sentence.
Edited by Rill - 01 Dec 2014 at 13:12 |
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| Wartow
Postmaster   Joined: 20 May 2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 870 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 01 Dec 2014 at 14:38 |
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Regarding the newbie experience... Patience is necessary in this game and if you are unwilling to wait around for the development of your first city then how do you think things will go during the wait in between later cities (as Rill said earlier in this thread)? One nice aspect of the slower pace at the start is that you do not need to be functional in every aspect of the game to make progress (or just survive). I often hear new players, and had the experience myself, that there is a lot to wrap your head around in this game and not having to do it all at once is a good thing.
A potential improvement to the newbie experience would be to limit the NPC that are spawned in the newbie ring. Keep the groups small and the animals to hunt simple. This may limit the incentive of larger players to remain in the newbie ring other than as a recruitment tool to supply newbies with resources.
Fixing the tenaril spell... I guess the most simple edit would be to require use of the spell prior to reaching the population necessary for a third city. After this point the spell would be lost. To get the newbies involved with the tenaril spell it could also be set up as a quest similar to the Temple of Reason.
The problem of resources for newbies... I think those that feel they have to beg for resources may have made a poor decision when it comes to selecting an alliance. I may have been lucky stumbling into MOON when I started but I found my fellow alliance mates to be available 24/7 and were always checking with me to see if I needed anything (huge shout out to Erista, Lanky, Lallia). This experience really prepped the next wave of players to be equally generous to the littlest of newbies among us.
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| IbnSenna
Postmaster  Joined: 20 Nov 2011 Location: Paris france Status: Offline Points: 632 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 01 Dec 2014 at 16:18 |
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lol!
For example, the opening of the BL should have been accompanied by new forms of travel. Perhaps marine vessels or something like "moongates" (or dormant portals) as was the case in LoU.I've just been talking with peeps in ACHE about 'innovations' in Illy such as sov'ing water squares, opening BL: both were acompanied with promises of new features that were never implemented:
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| Veneke
Wordsmith   Joined: 07 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 116 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 01 Dec 2014 at 18:05 |
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In the month or so that I've been here every instance of a new player seeking advice on attempting to act on one of the more interesting mechanics of the game - ie combat/thieving etc - has been met with not so subtle redirections away from such thinking.
Earlier today there was a relatively new player asking about thieving from a <30 pop unaligned player which had been inactive for about a week. The advice offered was to wait for 30 days, and then send a message to make certain he was no longer playing. Fortunately (I guess?) a nearby abandoned city was eventually found for the player.
Aye, it's certainly true that it can be uneconomical to go thieving or hunting or the like. That's certainly a state of affairs not unique to Illy. However, t
he fact that it might not be worth it economically wasn't even a factor in the discussion that took place in GC. Maybe it's just the active communi
ty in GC, but the impression that the player-base of Illy has left on me has been one that is exceptionally timid. That has benefits, certainly, but it does run against the grain of strategy MMOs. So you can hardly expect your bog standard strategy MMO bloke to take to Illy like a duck to water when you're looking at a lengthy build-up time (even if you didn't plan on Exodusing, Siege requires a Level 20 barracks, and trading has its own issues), and a lack of PvP combat which is one of the primary draws of strategy MMOs over single player strategy games.
There's a world of difference between requiring patience when you're literally watching a timer count down (which you are for the first week, or two), and patience when you have a wealth of options available to you - like thieves, armies etc.
No, this is silly. PvE is combat which the community here seems relatively okay with - and you want to further reduce the availability and strength of the NPCs in the newbie ring?
A better solution here would be an increased NPC presence in the newbie ring, and more direction/tutorials pointing new folk in the direction of combat. As has been mentioned, combat is reasonably uneconomical so it wouldn't be a reason to stay in the ring but it would point new players towards some of the interesting options available to them from their second week onwards.
What poorly managed alliance runs resources to new players without first checking if it's needed, they're active, and how much resources said player can hold? One way or another, you're begging for resources. Oh, it's not like some pauper calling you out on the street but it's begging nonetheless.
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"May have been the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one." - Captain Malcolm Reynolds
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| Glin
Wordsmith  Joined: 06 Apr 2014 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 127 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 02 Dec 2014 at 13:15 |
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I think it would be cool to make T3 research that allows for more squares in the city after you have reach 9 cities. Also having T3 crafted items that only longtime member with a certain tech score can open. Make large players valuable again, rather than just sitting around hoping for a war to be useful. Most of the big players are bored. keep them busy by giving them research that allows them have more plots of the certain types in their towns. Also, make it so that when the town is seiged those additional plots are not transferable.
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| TheBillPN
Forum Warrior  Joined: 03 Jun 2014 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 305 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 02 Dec 2014 at 17:00 |
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2. No, I don't think so. Having three accounts would lead to an awful lot of overcrowding and stuff, especially with all the account sitting going on. I am good with two accounts, there is lots to do, and you could always get someone to attack a town of yours and de-level stuff so you can start that town over again.
3. A new server would be lovely, and I realise that the devs would say its too expensive or unworkable or something like that, but could we at east have some more new map space to the east, west or north.
What we really need is purge of all the abandoned accounts that are very low level or have been left un-sieged for a long time, to free up space on the map. A new tourney or some more new mysteries would be good too to keep people interested. A new map section (I realise that BL only came out recently) would be brilliant to un-crowd Elgea. Finally we need live faction AI's, whenever they are coming, whenever talk in GC we inevitably end up questioning when this may happen.
If I have said anything that has already been addressed, solved, or just isn't true feel free to correct and shout at me.
Edited by TheBillPN - 02 Dec 2014 at 17:01 |
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| Rill
Postmaster General Player Council - Geographer Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 6903 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 02 Dec 2014 at 22:52 |
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Inactive accounts are purged regularly. That account that seems to be sitting there (perhaps a on a city location you covet) and doing nothing for years at a time has SOMEONE logging in regularly (at least every 90 days) to check it.
I think the developers have struck the correct balance between "we need to purge the inactives" and "agghhh! my account was deleted while I was gone." The evidence for this is that we see regular complaints on both sides.
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| fronfor
New Poster   Joined: 15 May 2010 Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 02 Dec 2014 at 23:17 |
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I second the proposal for a new server. I understand the unlikelihood of allowing three accounts, but I relish opportunities to try new playing styles and a new server allows for this. With only two accounts, you only get to try two of the four races, let alone pick a favorite!
Edit: And I agree so much with Veneke's post you don't even know. Edited by fronfor - 02 Dec 2014 at 23:20 |
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| Wartow
Postmaster Joined: 20 May 2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 870 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 03 Dec 2014 at 01:05 |
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My comment regarding NPCs in the newbie ring was a call to reduce the size of each NPC party present. I don't believe many newbies are going to be able to hunt anything in numbers greater than Many (so those Gatherings, Hordes, Throngs, Hosts are off the table early in the military and hunting experience). Also limiting the types of animals present to simple wild dogs, wolves, bears, would further encourage developing players to depart the newbie ring to find other regions with more diverse flora and fauna useful for crafting. Most experienced players wouldn't stay in an area with so little to offer other than as a location to feed newbies or potential new recruits for an alliance.
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Wartow wrote: