And when the going gets tough...... |
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HATHALDIR
Forum Warrior Joined: 01 Jul 2011 Location: Adelaide Status: Offline Points: 380 |
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Quote Reply Topic: And when the going gets tough......Posted: 27 Feb 2014 at 04:25 |
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A quick note for those who are left fighting in the coalition,there will be no trips to "the embassy" for terms.We will be happy with IGM's. If you don't want to deal with, tough bikkies(cookies)!
Love the Good Guys
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There's worse blokes than me!!
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realist
Greenhorn Joined: 28 Mar 2013 Location: Be Positive Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 27 Feb 2014 at 04:52 |
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Edited by realist - 27 Feb 2014 at 11:04 |
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Deranzin
Postmaster Joined: 10 Oct 2011 Status: Offline Points: 845 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 27 Feb 2014 at 08:27 |
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Well, finally some honesty in the forum ... +1 from me (for the honesty, not the content ) As for Hathaldir, I do not think that he really expects anyone to take his gloating seriously ... plus it is widely known that for actual terms one should go to vCrows ... |
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Cilcain
Wordsmith Joined: 13 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 27 Feb 2014 at 12:59 |
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Deranzin, please do not misinterpret one player's honesty as a consensus.
I have no desire to drive players out of the game without them having an option to stay in the game. Everyone has an option to surrender and ask for terms. Some players (including yourself I believe), have publicly chosen not to exercise that option - and I respect that, in which case, the fight continues.
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Deranzin
Postmaster Joined: 10 Oct 2011 Status: Offline Points: 845 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 27 Feb 2014 at 13:09 |
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I didn't think that ... maybe I should have been clearer before so I will elaborate. What I meant by saying that realist was honest about how he felt about the whole issue, does not mean or imply that there is a consensus towards his opinions, but that he himself was honest about them and that I appreciate honesty overall (I have made similar remarks in older similar posts btw) even when I disagree with the opinion that was honestly expressed. And I think that clears up any possible misunderstanding.
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Starry
Postmaster Joined: 20 Mar 2010 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 612 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 27 Feb 2014 at 14:04 |
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Check your facts, please, the Coalition did not siege anyone out of the game during the Consone war, max cities lost allowed was three (combined taken in the war and war reparations). The only exception to that was DARK players who decided THEY wanted to siege someone out of the game and we stopped it. It appears they are now free to continue their original intent and are removing Coalition members from the game.
No it is not the same, we stopped at three, you guys are not stopping at all, the intent IS to siege players out of the game which is short sighted at best for the future of the game, setting a dangerous precedent for future wars at worst case. At least be honest about your intentions, you want the Coalition out of this game. For those that are neutral, consider what this game is going to like should Harmless fall and this group can do as they please. :D
Hath, we have no intention of contacting you for any negotiations, we are not surrendering and certainly have no faith in the integrity or credibility of the enemy leaders to have any talks.
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CEO, Harmless?
Founder of Toothless? "Truth never dies." -HonoredMule |
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geofrey
Postmaster General Joined: 31 May 2011 Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 27 Feb 2014 at 15:24 |
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The intent is surrender. Make no mistake about it. Everyone wants the war over with, except for players unwilling to compromise.
With one side swearing destruction on it's enemies for all of eternity, the other side has 2 options, quarantine, enforce low military levels, or anihilation.
In illyriad, quarantine is very hard to do. Permanent blockades are not effective. The only solution is to draw out a boundary line, and say if any of their troops or cities cross it, they will be destroyed. You would have to constantly monitor enemy troop movements and new settlements.
Enforcing low military levels are also very difficult. Persistent scouting would be required to verify military levels. And you would only respond once the enemy has amassed more troops than you wanted. Meaning you are facing an army that you didn't want to face.
Annihilation is the simpler solution. Reduce player's cities down to a minimum level. This will at least give you several months of peace while the enemy, who has promised to destroy you one day, rebuilds.
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Cilcain
Wordsmith Joined: 13 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 27 Feb 2014 at 15:48 |
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Starry – from my position (a non-leadership role in VICX), I see things slightly differently to you.
I do not believe the intention is to siege players out of the game. I do however, believe that the intention is to siege logical targets (quelle surprise in a war). Whether these targets all belong to a single player or not is irrelevant.
By “logical”, this would typically mean towns closest to our hub – but other criteria might also come into play. What I wouldn’t deem as logical is specifically targeting towns on the sole basis that they belong to a certain player (e.g. “He’s only got two towns left, let’s go get him”).
By “target”, I mean towns belonging to members of alliances we are at war with (de facto or declared) that have not yet surrendered and accepted terms.
So, in my view, it is perfectly within the power of each of our adversaries to change one of these parameters;
Logical: Move your towns to a position where they present less of an obvious target.
Target: Surrender (either as an alliance or individual) and accept the terms given.
So, I disagree that we are intentionally sieging players out of the game; but what I do see is players choosing to be sieged repeatedly rather than be seen to surrender – but that’s their choice.
Personally, I would like to see a surrender....but you've made your position clear on that (for H? or for yourself though?) |
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Deranzin
Postmaster Joined: 10 Oct 2011 Status: Offline Points: 845 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 27 Feb 2014 at 15:55 |
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Considering that a surrender will lead to either of the suboptimal (for the winners) choices, am I the only one seeing the contradiction here .?.
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Ryklaw
Wordsmith Joined: 17 Aug 2012 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 113 |
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Quote Reply Posted: 27 Feb 2014 at 15:58 |
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Starry is correct. Destroying 3 cities is not the same as destroying all but one city.
And I realize that I may be making the same point that many others (including the previous posts) have made.
The issue is what is the level of force necessary for desired outcome? Would destroying just 3 cities of each alliance member result in that alliance’s surrender? In the case of previous conflicts, that answer was proven to be affirmative. Would that same level of force be effective in this war?
While searching for an analogy, I considered comparison to street gangs, countries, or the military (EBO) and realized all are flawed when compared to a game. But all analogies are flawed. So let me use a very flawed analogy to illustrate what I am trying to say.
If a child exhibits behavior that is unacceptable to others, the parent must decide what level of response is necessary to change that behavior. Choices exist ranging from rewarding good behavior through corporal punishment. When dealing with humans, one is never absolutely sure what level of discipline will result in the desired change. And so the parent makes flawed decisions trying to affect an outcome.
It is also true that parents may exhibit behavior that is unacceptable to others, including the child. The child then must decide what level of response is necessary to change or escape the parent’s behavior but with an entirely different set of tools at her disposal. She can become even more belligerent, report parent’s behavior to authorities, run away, etc. And so she makes flawed decisions trying to affect an outcome.
As both parties seek to stop some behavior (whether real or imagined) of the other, responses continue to escalate.
I leave it to others to debate what level of force is necessary, what desired outcomes are acceptable, and what Illy will look like at the end.
But anyone that attempts to establish expectations or boundaries to frame this conflict that prevents a final resolution are being very unrealistic.
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Finishing the Race!
II Tim 4:7,8 |
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