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Silverlake 
Forum Warrior
Joined: 15 Oct 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 417 |
 Posted: 20 May 2012 at 05:08 |
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I find the request to be fair and honorable
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SugarFree
Forum Warrior
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 350 |
Posted: 20 May 2012 at 05:09 |
 Basil wrote:
Kumomoto wrote:
As you said, Basil, you are new. And therefore, really do not have any appreciation for what you are talking about. |
Wrong. I know exactly what I'm talking about.
| And let's divorce ourselves from this concept of "let's discuss what is an appropriate distance for anything" and it needs to be approved by a popular vote. |
I said nothing of the kind. I simply stated that a unilateral declaration of ten squares of exclusivity was absurd. In my opinion.
| NO. Just like the real World. if there are treaties to be signed or alliances to be made, they are made by the powers that exist. And let those powers deliberate. |
"Powers that be" includes
every single player in Illy. Every single player in Illy has a right to voice his opinion/objection/approval of whatever has an effect. "Just like in the real World"
| And you know what? All the moaning and groaning and hugging and snuggling that can possibly happen is not going to matter a whit when these alliances do put their heads together... |
And do
you know what? Sitting back and meekly accepting what's offered, regardless how it may negatively affect you, is a chicken-s**t way to conduct your life.
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just a few words ...
LOL
with love, Kilotov.
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Quackers
Forum Warrior
Joined: 19 Nov 2011
Location: Jeff City
Status: Offline
Points: 435 |
Posted: 20 May 2012 at 05:11 |
Basil wrote:
Kumomoto wrote:
As you said, Basil, you are new. And therefore, really do not have any appreciation for what you are talking about. |
Wrong. I know exactly what I'm talking about.
| And let's divorce ourselves from this concept of "let's discuss what is an appropriate distance for anything" and it needs to be approved by a popular vote. |
I said nothing of the kind. I simply stated that a unilateral declaration of ten squares of exclusivity was absurd. In my opinion.
| NO. Just like the real World. if there are treaties to be signed or alliances to be made, they are made by the powers that exist. And let those powers deliberate. |
"Powers that be" includes
every single player in Illy. Every single player in Illy has a right to voice his opinion/objection/approval of whatever has an effect. "Just like in the real World"
| And you know what? All the moaning and groaning and hugging and snuggling that can possibly happen is not going to matter a whit when these alliances do put their heads together... |
And do
you know what? Sitting back and meekly accepting what's offered, regardless how it may negatively affect you, is a chicken-s**t way to conduct your life.
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You can say what you want about the 10 square rule, but when someone starts stealing your sov, you will be upset. The 10 square rule is put in place for both parties, so each can grow. I wouldn't even dare putting my cities (unless it needed to be), within 10 squares of eachother. To do so would limit both towns growth. Call it stupid, but when you get to a high level (50k+ pop) you might start to see why 10 square rule is smart.
It has nothing to do with being greedy or w/e, its about being there to help both parties grow their cities without limits.
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dunnoob
Postmaster
Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Location: Elijal
Status: Offline
Points: 800 |
Posted: 20 May 2012 at 05:13 |
Kumomoto wrote:
There are 2,000 squares wide by 2,000 tall on the map. By my calculation, that makes 4,000,000 squares, no? |
Yeah. When I wrote 3,000,000
claimable squares it was mostly to get something working for a division by 150. And of course there really are lots of unclaimable ocean, volcano, loch, etc. squares, and some significant food 0 regions such as HoC and the east end of Qarosslan. I can't tell if these undesirable squares add up to a quarter of all 4,000,000 squares.
Kumomoto wrote:
So every alliance that can, imo, should be instituting a 10 square rule, because you will need it in the future (or want the land). |
IBTD. Examples, it's kind of obvious that I
MUST NOT settle on the nice island near your Kelhaven if the folks already there don't want it. There still are free squares in distances greater than 10sq from all towns, but the whole area is clearly H? territory, I need no published rule or land claim registry to see it.
The opposite case is also possible, when somebody from H? settled exactly on the spot that I had bookmarked for a later exodus of my smallest town all I could do was to send some grumpy congrats for spotting the same dream coastal spot, and for grabbing it a.s.a.p. I certainly have not checked if this settlement in distance 7.1sq from another city in my alliance was
negotiated under some ten square rule -- from my POV I was not fast enough, it was no obvious territory, end of story.
Apologies to the DLords for my two H? examples, it just happens that I'll exodus at least one city to an area in Tallimar where H? is the biggest neighbour. Some smaller players are touchy with all those more or less obscure land claims of top alliances. Before this thread all I knew about DLords was "Kilotov is a nice dwarf", "DLords are the patrons of DiL", "DLords control some areas I'm not interested in", and of course "bring at least 25K stalwarts to a discussion with DLords".
Kumomoto wrote:
prepare for a less Disney time where relationships will be tested, confeds hardened in blood, and much of the drippy lovey dovey nature of the game goes by the wayside. Snuggles don't provide food and go ahead, give the next Orc you see on the battlefield a hug |
Wait, this hugging business is another alliance, and I assure you that they have a ten square policy, where
98 is almost 100... umh, I digress. Let's say that I certainly intend to be able to hold my Illy jungle colony with or without prejudice
soon™.
@HM: mostly ACK, I got the idea of 20 sov structures on varying subsets of 30 sov spots. But there is a reason why one new player outside of an alliance (at this time) tried the desperate gamble of jungle cities (= less than 25 res plots) with water sov before the water sov numbers were published:
Illy was very near to
full three months ago, and there are only two compelling reasons for a general ten square land claim, (1) it is derived from the hardwired exodus rule, (2) top alliances including DLords and H? have lots of stalwarts.
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903 |
Posted: 20 May 2012 at 05:17 |
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I want to make it clear that whatever my philosophical differences with parties other than DLords regarding how to productively solve disputes in Illy are, I have, as I stated earlier, no substantive concerns about the OP's statement that have not already been addressed by them in clarifying posts. I think their position is completely reasonable. Working out such matters to the benefit of all involved parties is a worthwhile goal.
Edited by Rill - 20 May 2012 at 05:27
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Kumomoto
Postmaster General
Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2224 |
Posted: 20 May 2012 at 05:22 |
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Please see above.
Edited by Kumomoto - 20 May 2012 at 05:57
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Basil
New Poster
Joined: 20 May 2012
Location: BritishColumbia
Status: Offline
Points: 12 |
Posted: 20 May 2012 at 06:44 |
You can say what you want about the 10 square rule, but when someone starts stealing your sov, you will be upset. The 10 square rule is put in place for both parties, so each can grow. I wouldn't even dare putting my cities (unless it needed to be), within 10 squares of eachother. To do so would limit both towns growth. Call it stupid, but when you get to a high level (50k+ pop) you might start to see why 10 square rule is smart.
It has nothing to do with being greedy or w/e, its about being there to help both parties grow their cities without limits. |
You're misunderstanding my point, I think. The 10 square guideline (it's not a rule, else you wouldn't be able to do it, like Illy won't let you relocate within 10 squares), is reasonable enough. My issue with this declaration, and the policy it announces, is that as Illy gets more and more crowded, smaller players will have nowhere to relocate or expand to, because the map will be a giant, sparsely populated suburban-like landscape of unused space. Attempting to make use of what little space remains will be considered a hostile act. If the space isn't needed and isn't being used, it a belligerant and hostile policy to enact, in my opinion.
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abstractdream
Postmaster General
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Location: Oarnamly
Status: Offline
Points: 1857 |
Posted: 20 May 2012 at 07:16 |
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The dev's seem to have indicated their intention to not allow Elgea to become so crowded as to suppress new player growth. If the map were to become "
a giant, sparsely populated suburban-like landscape of unused space" they would have missed their chance to do something. I think they will have acted long before that. I suppose that scenario is possible, but I believe it to be unlikely.
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Bonfyr Verboo
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903 |
Posted: 20 May 2012 at 07:25 |
abstractdream wrote:
The dev's seem to have indicated their intention to not allow Elgea to become so crowded as to suppress new player growth. If the map were to become "a giant, sparsely populated suburban-like landscape of unused space" they would have missed their chance to do something. I think they will have acted long before that. I suppose that scenario is possible, but I believe it to be unlikely. |
I don't remember the devs indicating this. In fact, they are in favor of circumstances that increase friction between players. Lack of space is quite nearly the definition of friction. I can't know the mind of the devs, but I don't think they have a particular vision for what Illy will be like, and even if they did they seem committed to a hands-off approach. My guess is that they will open another server based on several factors, including 1) achieving goals they have set for how the servers are to be connected; they have said they envision continents separated by navigable by water, which will require boats and therefore pathfinding; 2) when concurrent users exceed the maximum server load, causing a problem for performance; and 3) when the profit from doing so exceeds the profit from maintaining a single server.
I have not spoken to the developers about this specifically, so all of the above statements are speculations. However, I think expecting the developers to intervene simply because players have conflicts over space is likely to lead to disappointment.
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Brids17
Postmaster General
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1483 |
Posted: 20 May 2012 at 08:02 |
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I would assume the main factor in having a second server would be server stress, though I would imagine they would eventually have to open a second one would it get too crowded but I think that'll be a while before that happens. Most of the towns on the map are probably inactive anyway.
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