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02DEC14 - A new editorial explains bans and policy
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GM Rikoo View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02 Dec 2014 at 18:36
Check out this fantastic editorial that was written by our very own GM Stormcrow! It gives an inside look at how we handle bans and other issues, and explains how some things might work in the future. It was written for an audience outside of Illyriad mostly (the readers of the site) so some stuff had to explained for newbies.


Thanks to RTSguru's staff for their continued support!


GM Rikoo




Edited by GM Rikoo - 25 Apr 2015 at 20:57
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For what it's worth, in my view the article is a thoughtful piece which gives further context to recent decisions, it is worth reading and perhaps even I dare say thinking about. You will forgive me, I hope, if I come at it from certain angle.

I suspect that one unstated difficulty which has been troubling the recent conversation is the standard of proof. In the US (I believe) and English criminal courts the standard to which a criminal matter must be proved (mostly) is beyond reasonable doubt (or in the English case these days, the jury must be 'sure'). The civil standard of proof by contrast is respectively (again as I understand it) on the preponderance of the evidence or on the balance of probabilities i.e in shorthand 'probably'.

To those aggrieved by a GM's decision, particularly if they have ended up being banned for alleged misconduct, it is natural to appeal to and rely on arguments which might have some force if the criminal standard were applicable.

Being more realistic, this is a game, a relatively small game but one which operates within many real constraints as referred to by GM SC. It seems to me quite reasonable that the standard by which infractions are proved is in reality somewhere between 'probably' and 'sure'.

We players sign up to it knowing that ultimately the decision about our tenure here can be made by the devs, the only counter weight is that logically if they were to consistently act unreasonably there would cease to be viable playerbase, 

Based on what I have read, and I know it is only part of the story but it will have to do, I don't think they have been obviously unreasonable in so far as recent exploit bans have been concerned.

I understand that going public about details and reasoning is unusual and invites the counter opinion of all and sundry but again in this instance I think the right balance has been struck and indeed knowing that the devs are fully aware of the capacity for 'discussion' that elements of this community are capable of I rather admire the decision to go public.

To Nesse/Odd, if you happen to read this, and if you happened to be innocent, I am sorry about that, you join the honourable ranks of the wrongly convicted, worse things happen at sea as they say.

To GM SC, if you happen to read this, you can pay me in the usual way.
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Taelin is correct in his distinction between criminal and civil law in terms of "burden of proof", at least in those countries whose legal systems are derived from the UK (which in this situation includes the US). A good example is the OJ Simpson case: he was found not guilty in criminal court but guilty in civil court. And GM Stormcrow is also correct in his statement that corporations are often subject to laws that do not apply to individuals, or subject to different requirements under those laws. And of course laws and legal systems differ between countries; Illyriad is bound by laws in countries in which it operates (UK and US) which will often be different from laws in countries where many players reside.

As a totally disinterested spectator in all the recent drama concerning player bans, I have to say that the saddest thing I see is the amount of emotion and ego some people invest in what is, essentially, a somewhat silly online game.


Edited by Llannedd - 03 Dec 2014 at 01:17
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As a totally disinterested spectator in all the recent drama concerning player bans, I have to say that the saddest thing I see is the amount of emotion and ego some people invest in what is, essentially, a somewhat silly online game



When you make friends and have played the game for 3 or more years- the friends become a part of your life. YOu look forward to seeing and hearing from them each day- just like your flesh and blood friends. 
to suddenly be separated from them without the ability to email,social site them or whatever- its hard. online socializing is a whole new world that has become a forensic psychologists newest addiction.  And like any type of loss, different people respond and grieve over it differently. Don't knock it. It is there and real.
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Online "friends" are not real people in your life. If you think they are, that's sad.

Edited by Llannedd - 03 Dec 2014 at 07:57
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tl;dr: the article offers transparency, for considerations that are difficult for 'non-corporate' players to see.

There's a lot of background work needed to ensure a company is being responsible in a public environment. It often needs outside professional help to get it right. For something so complicated and involved, it's only natural that players will not understand all the relevant detail that goes into such policies and decisions.
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Explanation posts like this are always welcome. Nothing terribly new here, but it's still a welcome development.

Originally posted by Llannedd Llannedd wrote:

Online "friends" are not real people in your life. If you think they are, that's sad.

lolwut?

I was going to formulate a proper response to you, but on reflection this opinion of yours is not sufficiently informed enough to warrant that. Instead, I've expressed my reaction to your nonsense in a series of easily understood points.

 - You're simply wrong.
 - There's no requirement for someone to have an impact on your life to be someone you met in person.
 - That supposed requirement doesn't exist for friends either, in case you're wondering.
 - You know that, uh, people you talk to on the internet are real people too... right?
 - I am pretty confident that the word 'friend' does not mean what you think it means. Then again, I'm not certain you understand 'real', or 'life' either; and 'sad' could go either way.
 - The only sadness here is for the folk you know solely through the internet that consider you a friend.


Edit:

Wait... are you a troll? If so, well played sir.


Edited by Veneke - 03 Dec 2014 at 11:56
"May have been the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one." - Captain Malcolm Reynolds
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GM Rikoo View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Llannedd Llannedd wrote:

Online "friends" are not real people in your life. If you think they are, that's sad.

Online friends are certainly real people in my life, and it is not sad.

Anyway, stay on topic.


GM Rikoo


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Originally posted by Llannedd Llannedd wrote:

As a totally disinterested spectator in all the recent drama concerning player bans, I have to say that the saddest thing I see is the amount of emotion and ego some people invest in what is, essentially, a somewhat silly online game.
wow, that is quite the most condescending thing i have seen in these forums since the war closed. related to the topic, though, player retention more or less depends on finding players who don't regard it as just a "silly online game", because anyone who would spend the hundreds of hours illyriad requires on a somewhat silly online game really needs to realign his/her priorities, yes? GM Stormcrow refers often to the "community" here. is it so hard to understand why a community might react strongly to what it regards as the mistreatment of one of its members?

Originally posted by Llannedd Llannedd wrote:

Online "friends" are not real people in your life. If you think they are, that's sad.
online friends are quite real in my life, and some have outlasted friends that by any measure ought to have been "more real". i am sorry if the existence of my friends makes you sad, but i cannot regret it. noting that your alliance consists only of you and your alt, i suggest that this prophecy is self-fulfilling.


Edited by Angrim - 04 Dec 2014 at 00:05
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When AI's learn how to play Illyriad, we're all toast, and we won't be able to tell if they're human or not.
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